It's time...
 

...Time for all the LEC Reps to step down.

They're lame ducks, we need strong leaders to dig out this mess.

Care to elaborate? Based on what? Looks like the division tactics the company has undertaken has worked on you. Have you called your rep? Am I responding to a management troll right now? Lol

Coming up at the next mediator session, the company presents the mediator with 1000 pages of forum posts claiming that ALPA does not represent the pilot's interests.

Oh come now,.. Anybody that is willing to be brought up on federal charges on behalf of their pilot group can't be all that bad. How many hits have you taken for the team lately??? Yeah, I thought so:)

The troll is strong with this one.

I'm not going to judge the union too harshly just yet because I believe they know something that we don't. That said....... I'm pretty disappointed in the fact that it almost seems like radio silence for the past few weeks. If they are not going to fight back they need to keep a better dialogue with the group so we know that something is happening. Let's just hope they have something good planned the next time they go to the table.

Is your email working? I've gotten a ton of email from ALPA national, my LEC, and our MEC in the past few week. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Most of those emails in the past week go along the lines of; "please lets all do what the company needs us to do pretty pretty please!"

I've lost a ton of faith in the union. There's zero reason for the union to have rolled over like they did when the lawsuit happened. You can't prove the SPAchokers website was done by a pilot as you can't prove it wasn't done by the company. They had the same exact information we have and it is not beneath them to pull a stunt like that.

So much of what the company presents to a judge is inadmissible in court. You just cant prove who's writing what on APC or the Godaddy domain the website was hosted on.

If I can wear my tinfoil hat for a second? Most union higher-ups are in it for themselves to get the days off they want, get the credit, etc. Spirit is low on ALPA's priority list. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these union members (as is the Broward judge) are on payroll for some sort of deal that'll end with the company getting the contract THEY want.

This whole TRO will result in the company being able to get rid of transition without having to bargain for it. They're canceling flights which are fully staffed and still blaming pilots. Once transition is gone we lost major leverage. You think the union doesn't know? you think they didn't see any of this coming? of course they did. why just roll over? why let the company have it their way? the whole "we need to invest our resources into negotiations" is BS. We aren't even at the table until operations return to normal, and the company controls that 100%.

The union either messed up big time and is lost, or this happened on purpose.

Either way the pilots have already lost.

Have you taken the time to talk to a rep, maybe read your email or go to a pub event? Maybe even call the ALPA attorneys?
You are clueless dude.

Yeah I got a few emails from them this week to include info about a few CA's and an email that said look guys, the motley fool notices that we are in the right on this one. Nothing else that is worth much has come from them as far as I know. Like I said before, I personally think they know something that we don't and are silent for a reason. You know as far as real information goes, things have been pretty quiet lately. No info about plans, no info regarding negotiations this month etc. I stand by them and believe they have a plan but I'm still concerned about lack of info.

You are the clueless ones. Do you think the MEC is lying when they say to make the company work? Why did they roll over and allow the TRO to become permanent? They're scared, they need to resign!

Lemonade, where have you been all this time?
Not sure anybody is scared, they are just a LOT smarter than you...
What you are proposing would be the absolute DUMMEST thing we could do at this time.

You aren't going to convince him. It is impossible to reason with the unreasonable.

But we should all be scared. Our fly-by-night management team has painted themselves in a corner. There is a huge pilot staffing issue and an even larger pilot shortage on the horizon. It is only going to get worse if something isn't done soon to make this a place people where want to work.

Agree with that. But this is not the first time Spirit has created a crisis for themselves.
It always seems to take a little bit of time before CEO/board realize how something they are doing is untenable.

So let's not be scared, let's be MAD!!
At Bendo and his management team primarily. They are most likely misrepresenting facts to Fornaro and the board in the similar way they have misrepresented facts to the judge.

It won't be fixed either unless we get a contract. When regional F/O's are making more than first and second year Spirit F/O's, why would anyone come here? Management has turned this place into a stinking cesspool.
If management thinks for one second that suing the association for staffing issues is going to help them, they will only magnify the situation. Most of us here are tired, worn out fixing the daily issues here. Management says they want a contract that reflects the size of airline we are growing into? I want a management group that is capable of managing an airline. Obviously we are at a point that this management group is way over their collective heads. No confidence in this management and I would love for the BOD to know how inept they are.
I'm out of this place as soon as I can be.

DUMMEST.........BWAHAHAH :eek:

Quote of the day right there.

How does this happen? I assume we'd have to put it up for a vote and these guys aren't going to let that happen easily. Do you know the bylaws?

This could have some legs. I am also tired of the endless capitulation.

Hmm. Second quote ever and talking about undermining the union. Nice try troll

Not trying to troll. Nor do I want to de-unify the group. I just am tired of the lackluster performance.

wow

filler

Based on their total failure to accomplish anything during a time when other groups are being handed raises. HANDED raises. Our Reps should step down. Let somebody else give it a shot. Thats why.

Im thinking that I am talking to a management troll. Bendo loves our guys, what does that say about you?

I'm hearing some changes to our ALPA leadership could be forthcoming. Some will be due to the natural timing of elections and some due to recall.

Nothing like good ole infighting is going to get us a RATIFIABLE contract soon.

Em I right?

Bendo Bob and Jyri laugh

The company is doing what is best for the company,
The union is doing what is best for the union,
We will do what is best for the pilots and get the best contract possible anyway we can.

Who's we? I thought we were the union.

i changed it from "you" to "we" so everyone would think i am a Spirit pilot.
Justice delayed is justice denied" is a legal maxim meaning that if legal redress is available for a party that has suffered some injury, but is not forthcoming in a timely fashion, it is effectively the same as having no redress at all.

Lol
This is the first time I've heard Bendo "loves our guys". I honestly don't think it is in the best interest of the pilot group to head down the path you are suggesting, even if you think they are doing a crappy job. They haven't told me enough info (nda's) to make a conclusion about how good/bad they are doing. Am I frustrated about the time it has taken to get this far? I'm actually pretty level headed but I'm getting more and more angry every day. Our management is playing the stall game...It is obvious. Cooler heads will prevail my friend.

And the other groups being HANDED raises don't work for spirit management. Our management is dumber than industry standard, paid at industry standard, and think they are smarter than everyone. Sucks to work for these dirt bags.

This.... lemonhead needs to channel his anger in the right direction. If anything bendo likes guys like him (divisive). I'm guessing he's a millennial (needs everything yesterday or will kick and scream)! Question for you lemonhead......oh wise one......lets hear your master plan if we were so lucky to have you driving the ship?!

Negotiations resuming as scheduled. Spirit needs a deal and they know it. They need our deal and we know it.

This is good news to hear.

I hope you're correct. Perhaps management has finally realized that if they want a smooth running on time airline a new pilot contract is the only thing that will make it happen. I sleep like a fat baby at night knowing they need us more than we need them.

I talk to many jumpseaters from the regionals, many of them highly qualified captains. They have said to me numerous times that they are watching Spirit intently because they want to work here but can't make the jump at the current rates we have since most of them are on the higher end of the regional pay scale.
Even Allegiant management was smart enough to know they needed to do something. Unfortunately we have low tier management.

They did and their pilots went for it. Our management may want that too but that contract and retirement plan isn't even in the ballpark.

Maybe this will be yours and Lemonades chance to get some of your more management friendly guys in there 😉

I think you're overly optimistic both in what this group will sign, what the company will offer AND about what ALPA is getting ready to shove (think 2010) down our throat.

However, you get an "A" for your efforts in buildung unity. I would add that under "community service" on your Delta app.

Thanks I guess but I see zero indication that our group will sign anything less than industry standard. Even if there was I wouldn't indicate that here to undermine our NC and for management to read so knock that off.

I am not optimistic on what the company will offer or that it will be soon. They need a deal but they don't want one. We will have to see whether they take care of their wants or needs. And in my communication with the NC if it's not industry standard it's not getting TAd and I plan on holding them to that. So no they will not be shoving anything down our throats and they've given me no indication that that will thus far. If they try a substandard TA it's going back and off with their heads (figuratively APC). For now they have my 100% support