Negotiations
#1
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 459
Negotiations
Anyone hearing how yesterday started off this round of negotiations? I'm cautiously optimistic, but I think we may see some real movement these sessions...
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 110
I heard everything is TA'd, just getting definitions and signing bonus down.
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#3
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 45
Negotiations
Can someone shed some light on what 1st year pay may be with new TA? I applied a few months ago and have done the Gallup Test but haven't heard anything since.
#4
I seem to recall you made a very optimistic and lengthy post in the fall of 2015 about how close we were to having a TA. We all know how that turned out, so forgive me if I take what you post with a grain of salt....
#6
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 459
Haha.. you sure that as me? I'm not saying I didn't but it sure doesn't sound like me. I've never been accused of being an optimist ... and I'm positive I never believed this was gonna go very quick ... especailly in fall of 2015?! I can't remember myself ever thinking anything would get done near the Amendable date... until recently my thought was next summer
#7
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 459
I do recall a lengthy post of what was relayed to me by a union big wig in the Jumpseat... he sounded very positive and maybe I believed him too much.. but if recall correctly I more or less was relaying what he told me..
Regardless that was 2 years, 40 airplanes, 4 billion dollars, 400 pilots and 1 CEO ago...so I was curious as to how this week is going so far. We undoubtedly will find out late Friday in a union email.. but for the sake of convo I was just curious. External forces, in my belief are why we will start to see movement this week... hopefully .. cautiously optimistic
Regardless that was 2 years, 40 airplanes, 4 billion dollars, 400 pilots and 1 CEO ago...so I was curious as to how this week is going so far. We undoubtedly will find out late Friday in a union email.. but for the sake of convo I was just curious. External forces, in my belief are why we will start to see movement this week... hopefully .. cautiously optimistic
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 227
I wouldn't expect anything earth shattering. I'm hoping for some solid progress, but seeing the way our management has run this company to this point makes me very pessimistic. Hopefully the NMB can provide a little push.
#10
Haha.. you sure that as me? I'm not saying I didn't but it sure doesn't sound like me. I've never been accused of being an optimist ... and I'm positive I never believed this was gonna go very quick ... especailly in fall of 2015?! I can't remember myself ever thinking anything would get done near the Amendable date... until recently my thought was next summer
spoke with union rep today in FLL for a good 15 minutes. He is one of the insiders. I tried as hard as I could to pick his brain. This is according to him, but a deal is imminent. I was curious about pay and retirement the most as are most folks I suspect. He basically said the company has agreed to 1.5 billion in total compensation over the 5 years. The union was shooting for 1.6ish or so. The 1.5 billion is to be divided up how the union sees fit. He acknowledged that the majority of the money is looked to be spent on the guys at 4-8 year longevity. obviously mostly capt rates. although the didn't give specifics it sounds a lot like jet blue rates.. 165-190 range. We talked about top end. I told him i thought $230 would be reasonable and he said don't be surprised to see it slightly higher than that. He said the senior guys are quickly being out numbered by mid tier seniority levels so therefore paying 125 guys $230 an hour wasn't nearly as big a portion of the 1.5 billion pot as mid level guys so they didn't mind to pay them that. He made it sound like first year still sucks, around $49 but second is around $90 and tops out around $145.
Although he didn't tell me the breakdown between the two, but total retirement, direct contribution and company match on 401k would total 15%. maybe 10 DC and 5 match but who knows. he didn't say. He said an overwhelming majority surveys were more concerned with QOL issues, and thats what they spent most time working on. For the sake of expediency (because thats what surveys asked for) they worked on big ticket items. we DID not discuss stuff like min day, rigs, vacation and many of those items. reading between the lines much of that stuff wasnt discussed, and the new contract will be very similar to the old when it comes to all things other than compensation. I don't understand scope and merger protection so I didn't ask anything regarding that, because truthfully i don't know much about that stuff. He made light of the fact, we could argue for delta pay, and legacy pay and over a long period of time very likely get it. A mediator would buy into the argument that we are worth delta pay due to the success of the company but that a mediator would basically say there work rules and ours our so different that they would grant us delta pay if we took delta rules. Again, his opinion. So the million dollar question is, when this thing comes out, are guys gonna be willing to look at the entire package with Line bidding, 4 days off, good health insurance, good commuter clause and accept maybe 170 an hour when they think they are worth 182? we shall see. If its all about pay rates it will be OK but not great I suspect. but my opinion and mine only is that, as a whole its gonna be on a whole, a fair and reasonable TA. GOOD luck !
Although he didn't tell me the breakdown between the two, but total retirement, direct contribution and company match on 401k would total 15%. maybe 10 DC and 5 match but who knows. he didn't say. He said an overwhelming majority surveys were more concerned with QOL issues, and thats what they spent most time working on. For the sake of expediency (because thats what surveys asked for) they worked on big ticket items. we DID not discuss stuff like min day, rigs, vacation and many of those items. reading between the lines much of that stuff wasnt discussed, and the new contract will be very similar to the old when it comes to all things other than compensation. I don't understand scope and merger protection so I didn't ask anything regarding that, because truthfully i don't know much about that stuff. He made light of the fact, we could argue for delta pay, and legacy pay and over a long period of time very likely get it. A mediator would buy into the argument that we are worth delta pay due to the success of the company but that a mediator would basically say there work rules and ours our so different that they would grant us delta pay if we took delta rules. Again, his opinion. So the million dollar question is, when this thing comes out, are guys gonna be willing to look at the entire package with Line bidding, 4 days off, good health insurance, good commuter clause and accept maybe 170 an hour when they think they are worth 182? we shall see. If its all about pay rates it will be OK but not great I suspect. but my opinion and mine only is that, as a whole its gonna be on a whole, a fair and reasonable TA. GOOD luck !
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