I'll side with Keizer Soze on this one. Professionalism comes in lots of different shapes and sizes. True, some of the 91/135 guys are a bit shell-shocked at the pace and individual learning style in a 121 environment, but most have at least an idea of what they're signing up for and handle themselves professionally, as I'm sure they did at SIMCOM and FlightSafety. One of the worst I've dealt with in my years of doing this was a F-16 guy who wanted to be spoon-fed every bit of information and not crack the manual himself...but he was the outlier. And us 121 guys? Most good, some very average with entitlement issues to boot.

Again, the issues I'm witnessing is simply a lack of experience thrown into a "121 crash course with Airbus differences". Could be a 91/135 guy, could be an 8-year RJ FO, could be a military guy who hasn't gotten the call from the Big 3 yet.

CSI is supposed to be about systems. Instead, it’s a lesson in speed reading the ECAM then jumping into the COM and speed reading again. Then you spend an hour learning to shoot NDB approaches and LOC approaches using a manually calculated CDP and optimum energy approach profiles. That’s the reality of “systems training”. Stop bringing up the “study guide “. There’s a couple of examiners that will flip out if you regurgitate the misinformation contained in that. One of them came to our class and told us to throw that guide away. You think that guy asks questions from that guide? All I expect is some structure to the program. Not to be spoon fed, taught. Big difference. To hand someone a stack of manuals and then play stump the dummy isn’t teaching and isn’t helping anyone.

Did you state as much in the request for feedback at the end of training?

Most anytime I've brought up my less than stellar opinion of the training program to anyone (even those involved in training) I've been met with a shrug of the shoulders and basically "It's what's approved and it's Spirit and everybody else has had to go through it so...". Seems to me that anyone who might care about complaints isn't in a position to do anything while the people who might be able to do something don't care so trying to offer constructive criticism is a waste of breath.

Id like to reiterate that it’s not all corporate pilots but the above is straight from someone that is allegedly currently training corporate pilots.

Doesn’t anyone remember not so long ago Spirit rarely hired corporate pilots? Company reps would flat out tell them at the job fairs that their chances of getting an interview were slim.

I believe the new hire program is severely lacking and I’m not trying to insult any singular pilot that might have come from corporate because we all know must of us would suck it up big time if we went from 121 to corporate. All I am saying is that corporate pilots have historically posed a more risky hire and that is fact. It’s not an insult to anyone’s personal background

Right on BROTHER! It's a complete joke! It shouldn't matter your back ground. It's just a different aircraft. We don't have a legit training program.

Well said. And yes everytime you mentioned this to anyone, it was received with a shrug and just don’t whine. Cooperate and graduate.

I recently spoke to a friend, who is also in the training center, and he complained about the “teach me attitude” that some of the upgrade pilots are coming in with. He mentioned the lack on knowledge and leadership that is being displayed by some.
He also said that the quality of guys entering the program has degraded quite a bit.

Swiss cheese anyone? Its worrisome and I hope it never ends with fatal consequences.

It will happen, a Spirit Airplane will get bent, hopefully not with casualties. We have a handful of incredibly poor CAs who paired up with some of these new hires?? No way Id sit in the back. Sad state of affairs when mgmt knows this but refuses to get this contract done all in the name of saving a dollar.

Boy, if this is true. That's pretty disturbing. Most airlines use some sort of study guide to consolidate the massive amount of technical knowledge into a manageable format. For an examiner to tell a new hire class to "throw it away." Horrible trend.

Stump the chump is no way to go. Yuri, what happen to your "warm and friendly" training environment?

Mr. White

And just to clarify one other point, I do have 121 background. I did do 135 years ago, but I done of the more 121 training than part 135 training. Also had part 141 training for my initial PP-MEI. So yes, I do know what a structured training is supposed to look like.

Should’ve thrown some hooked on phonics in between the 135 and 121 programs...is this Latin?

Patron, but thanks for asking

Amen and three quarters.

It's not that they can't but that they don't know how to succeed in anything other than a program that starts 30 minutes late, has 45 minutes of class with 30 minute coffee breaks, guys walking out of class non-stop to field calls, on the fly made up flows, shorts and T-shirts, half hour arguments about how 'that's not how we did it in the XXX', and systems training that revolves around chicken fried steak Thursday.

I can tell you that while the FAA 'approves' of all the above Transport Canada doesn't tolerate this kind of kindergarten crap and holds their guys to much higher standards. TC even knows how to properly train stalls in a jet. But that's a different story.

If a corporate background guy is considering NK you need an honest self-assessment of if you will put in the effort to get through training. Just about any idiot can pull back and make the houses get little. Are you willing, right or wrong, to do it our way, with our flows, and with our calls?

Again, our **** pay acn attract quality applicants, PERIOD, END OF STORY

Truth!!!!!

Higher quality candidates aren’t applying because of the horrendous pay, but also because the word has gotten out that mathematically, someone hired now won’t upgrade for more than 10 years and rising!

Once this aircraft order is complete in 2021, the most junior captain will be around #1600 seniority. According to the last vacancy bid, we have almost 1900 pilots.

Over the next 7 years, we have less than 100 retirements. lol

And don’t count on attrition because as you get closer to upgrading, more and more of that attrition is guys below you leaving, thus not getting you any closer to upgrading.

Whaaaaattt???? I thought everyone wanted to come here because of our "amazing" work rules???