Training pay, realistic take home
 

I heard it's $1750/month pre tax?

It's $1000/month taxed. and $750 per diem non-taxed. They do provide a hotel though. Snag a credit card with 0% interest. Rack it up for the 2 months, and (hopefully) pay it off when you get on line

Sound financial planning. :rolleyes:

I would donate plasma and collect cans before racking up credit card debt and hoping to pay it off at $38.50 an hour at 72 hours a month.

Ha ha, you win the internets today!

It's a joke don't do it! You'll be better off somewhere else. Tell them to call you when the pay comes up! :cool:

Just remember the first year pay seems like it lasts forever. INCLUDING per diem I made $28.5 year 1. That said I didn't exactly for my butt off.

Best first year financial plan at Spirit is to drop everything possible and get a second job especially if you already have enough SIC in your logbook for a reasonable application somewhere else.

Even in the summer, a first year FO who watches red/green daily can usually drop at least half their schedule each month. That frees up a good 20-25 days/month for a job that pays better, like maybe wal-mart greeter, McDonalds, or pizza delivery. Sign up for Uber so you can get paid to/from the airport too. Pretty sure McDonalds doesn't track 29/7 when you ask for overtime.

The month before your first PC go ahead and actually fly so you'll remember your flows in the sim, but that's the only trick to it really.

I totally get the wanting to drop because why fly at $38 an hour?

However I can't tell you how many FOs do just that and are at the 1 year mark, with 200 hours of Airbus time in their logbook, and still having trouble managing the airplane.

The pay sucks, we all know that when coming here. But you are doing yourself and the other guy you're flying with a disservice if you are still flying like a newhire at the 1 year mark. The Airbus is not a hard plane to fly but it does take some time to understand it.

Because its one thing if a newhire has trouble not getting behind the Airbus, its another when its a guy who has been here for a while.

Coming out of a condensed firehose training program, avoiding the real airplane won't do much to improve your ability to do your job well. In the end, regardless of pay, the 2 pilots up front depend on each other, don't be the weak link.

Wrong about dropping ( depending on base ) January through April maybe but the summer and fall have been all red. Hell in October you couldn't drop anything. Maybe you are thinking of Spirit of the past but RED is all we have now. Do you need a screenshot?

To answer the question: Not enough to justify applying. It was hard enough back when Spirit was one of the few Airlines hiring, Upgrade was less than 3 years, other Airlines hadn’t gotten new contracts yet, and I had a sugar mamma. I think you are crazy to consider Spirit if you are looking for a flying job. There is honestly nothing good to say about this place.

Don’t know what base you are in or what seat, but in DFW as an FO everything is green right now except for Thanksgiving and the Friday and Sat following it. I was able to drop most every trip in Oct and Nov and build my own relief line. ( well except for my training days)

Section 25.R.4.a.1

No more than 25% of the days can be red at the start of IOT.

And reserves can do anything in IOT?? And, what happens to said grid after IOT? No need to respond to me, I know what happens...

I started at AA post merger in 2014 and made $35/hr. I think take home was under $2k. Still doable but not super fun. Luckily I had been planning for the pay cut for years so we had no debt. And we had zero expectations of any sort of "fast" upgrade.

I remember I worked one month at my regional and made half of what I made the rest of the year at AA ($15k at my regional and about another $30k for the rest of the 11 months).

That said in todays environment I really don't know how Spirit is staffing their operation. Amazing how far the pay has increased just in the last three years here. Spirit pretty much needs to flat out double y'alls pay.

Well they wont, and the Mediator doesnt seem to GAF.

Spirit mgmt will do everything and anything before they raise our pay

I have been in 4 of our 5 bases and have seen enough green days to drop pretty much as much as you want. Holidays will be red though. As far as pay, you’ll definitely be better off getting a second job somewhere else doing just about anything. By the time you pay for a crash pad, transportation and food, you’ll be close to going in the hole

I don't need a screenshot, I lived it. Only one month in the last 12 was a total fail when it came to dropping.

So.. not wrong. I did it without any special scheduling tricks or anything.

Bid the line with the days off I wanted.
Bid reserve with days off I wanted.
Bid relief, putting days off I wanted in the notes.
Bid the rest of the lines

At IOT, drop literally everything, maybe I'll get lucky and a trip or two will drop, but usually not at IOT.
At DOT open, drop everything in the first minute, post everything on tradeboard immediately afterwards.
Come back an hour later, re-drop everything that was denied, even if red.
Come back an hour later, re-drop...
Come back 6 hours later, re-drop...
Come back the next day when drops are handled immediately, and drop anything that is green.

Keep repeating until 2 days prior, while answering the phone whenever scheduling calls to pick up more desirable trips (ie. ones that don't conflict with my kids' activities) plus move-up, plus always remember to ask if they'll drop something in exchange for the pick up. Sometimes a 4-day trip has only one red day, and scheduling might be more willing to let you trade it for something last minute. If you're really good talking to the schedulers, sometimes you can get the dropped trip pay protected, depending on how badly they want you to pick up what they called you for. I didn't have to try to work the scheduler aspect very hard, mostly it just worked out dropping on flica and picking up either from open time or when they called.

I did it, it worked all year except one month. Managed to get to almost every family activity, and in almost every single month I was able to drop at least 2 trips, often more, and replace them with more convenient trips or just stay home with the fam. I started doing more yard work and dropped my gardening service, saved $150/month that way with 1/10th the effort it takes to earn $150 flying first year.

Now... yea, it worked, at my base. YMMV. Should everyone do it? Good question, probably depends on how much they can make at their second job and how badly they need currency to not suck.

Which brings up the real issue, the problem BusterBust brought up with the threat of being a total clueless turd in the right seat. I think I managed that problem fairly well without a single lecture from my CA, and my first PC also went fine. But there were also trips that I started by going back over a bunch of my old training material too, just to refresh my brain. I also know that there are some pilots who probably need to fly a lot more to be safe, and those pilots may not know what they don't know. I could be one of those pilots, if only someone would tell me :)

If it's a real problem, maybe the company might consider paying people enough to get them to show up to work. And that means much much more than merely the hourly pay rates.

And for those who hate anyone saying anything good about the company... The post above explains a coping mechanism that worked for me to deal with what sucks about first year at spirit, not a commentary about how awesome it is to be able to drop trips.

Dropping trips does not equal QOL. Getting paid an industry standard wage to fly a well-planned schedule IS one part of good QOL that spirit doesn't have, and dropping/picking up trips is one way to cope with that.

Considering it doesn't look like the 1st year FO would get anywhere close to timing out, how does Spirit treat the outside contract flying?
Asking for a friend

Need written approval from CPO


Good luck, lol

Would you prefer that the whole grid was set to red from the start? Remember how fun that was for 2 years while we waited for arbitration and the company blatantly violated the red/green language. No dropping and you couldn’t even swap a 4day for another 4day on different days even if the coverage was worse.

Red/green may be our single best work rule and people can complain that the grid is red but the point is that it didn’t start that way and the company didn’t change it. Someone is dropping. Maybe those with all red grids just happen to live in a base of folks that don’t like working so the grid goes red quickly. I know I see a good amount of green right now half way through a holiday month.

red/green will be even better with a new contract. Good pay rates, rigs, etc. will have people dropping less and working their trips, which will create less red days, but less open time to swap/add as well.

The problem with this management is any new work rule will be violated until arbitration which takes years.

We work for the absolute, scum of the earth when it comes to management.

What I'm saying is the company will **** all over the scheduling language like they already do. We could have the most awesome "union runs the solution, just get the flying covered, we don't care" type language and we'll STILL have Mgmt interpreting it however the F—- they want. Did any of you not read the red/green decision?

There's an entire page of the arbitrator describing Jyri testifying that the company could be in compliance with red/green at ONE INSTANTANEOUS SNAPSHOT and thereafter changing it to ANYTHING THEY WANTED at any time.

This is who we work for. The benefit of keeping language is they cant F around with it because we won arbitrations and have cease and desist orders in place.


New language WILL 100% be violated by SPIRIT MANAGEMENT. MARK MY WORDS

And? So this is what it is. Language will be changed if PBS is implemented. They will try and violate it and we will go to arbitration. We will win, they will pay for their errors and affected pilots will receive compensation for those violations.

This is what it is and who we work for.

2 ways to fix this..quit or hope the next management group is cut from a different cloth. If you already expect them to screw us when they can, why is it still a disappointment/upsetting when they do just that? Thats what they do. We fly planes and they enjoy screwing pilots.

Many of us have 30+ years left in this career. Take a deep breath and accept that as long as your badge says Spirit on it, there is a 90% chance this will be their objective. Ive accepted it, don't like it, but I know who we are against and I battle them just like they battle us.

If I decide I've had enough, I'm free to explore career opportunities at a pilot friendly airline (oxymoron). But I'm under no illusion that Airline A will treat their pilots so much better than Airline B.

Heros are the union volunteers who have to sift through the thousands of NCCs annually and sit down at a table with management, going over every violation and seeking a resolution for us. And when that fails, having to prep for arbitration hearings and for the 100th time having to look at Jeeeeri say "Huh, yeah, I can do that. I can do whatever I want." While his goofy head and outdated haircut bobs back and forth. Imagine having to do that!

At least airline B pays their ******* Pilots........

I have an interview coming up. 7k tt 1500 TPIC on A320. I work overseas. I don't need another minute of airbus time on my resume and I'm ASSuming that I don't need the practice. Now for the question:

If I join I'll be on McDonalds fry cook pay for a year on reserve and then McDonalds fry cook Manager pay year two. I keep hearing that you can drop your entire reserve schedule. How does that work? Do I still get paid my minimum? On 3k a month, with two kids, and not living in base, a crashpad would be impossible. If I took the job, pending the offer of course, I would rely on the fact that I can basically take the first year off and not have to worry about a crashpad. Is this possible, or am I reaching. Otherwise I could hold out for a better job that may never come. I don't need the "don't come to Spirit" rhetoric. Facts are appreciated.

You won’t be able to drop your entire schedule and what you can drop you lose the pay for. Id look elsewhere based on your post.

IF you could drop all your reserve, you lose pay with each drop, leaving you zero hours pay.

You won’t be able to drop it all.

Reserve drop limits are currently a discussion point in negotiations; management wanting zero reserve drops and the union wanting drops allowed from days on the outside of blocks only, on one reserve “block” of days for the month. So neither side is pushing for the entire “drop the month of reserve.” Which is fine because it can’t be done anyways.

And then there is the nightmare of consolidation of knowledge which requires you to fly your 100 hours in 120 days, or back to the sim you go. And if you don’t have your consolidation of knowledge, you’ll be called out first on reserve on the days you can’t drop, all trying to get 100 hours in 120 days.

You can see where this is going...nowhere, fast.

Best of luck in your search but this won’t be the fit you seek.

Thank you. This clears up a lot. So I suppose commuting to reserve is impossible without a crash pad? I read you have 3 hour callouts and 11 hour callouts.

I am looking elsewhere but I'm thinking my lack of 121 time could be the problem. Of course I am also degreeless so that doesn't help much either.

Crashpad or cheap hotel.

If you don't want reserve, you'll be on RES for less than a year. If you're gonna commute anyway consider *gasp* ACY and be near the top of the seniority list there in 6-9 months. Bid the line you think you can drop the easiest plus transition conflict, try to drop everything, and then pick back up from a more convenient base.

There is no real distinction between 3 and 11 hour callouts. You might get a day's notice, might get 2 hours notice and a pretty-please with 1 hr move-up pay on top if you can get there fast and push on time. Contract says "at the gate ready to go" 3 hours after the call.

When I was on RES, I'd guess that at least half of my calls were 6 hours or less, however they company *usually* called me as soon as my duty window opened and if I checked my schedule before getting called, I would sometimes see that I'd been assigned a trip almost a full day prior and they just didn't call until the beginning of my next RES window.

Lack of 121 time and lack of degree doesn't seem to be an issue but you'll never know if you don't apply.

A little bird I overheard suggested that one other high-payoff first-year game to be played is to drop everything possible first year, and use the time off to finish up that college degree, maybe volunteer somewhere to add some more points on your legacy apps. You'll get more pay at some regionals now but you'll also fly more, with less time for school. Depends on which benefits you more, SIC 121 hours or a degree.

Just a friendly heads up; apparently they’ve been telling interviewees that they will upgrade in 3 years, which I think is very misleading.

We have about 1900 pilots now, about 900 of those are FOs, waiting to upgrade. We have less than 60 more aircraft on order. That equates to only about 600 more captain upgrades for this aircraft order. We have very few retirements. Attrition is tough to predict.

You do the math and predict realistically how long it’ll take you to upgrade. Plan on being paid horribly for years.

I think you summarized all my concerns. The degree is a priority.
How does one commute to ACY? I am confused to why its a hub. I suppose it means they don't compete directly with anyone there.

Thanks for your input. Fly safe.

How about the distinction that we don’t have an 11 hour call out, only 3.

That’s a pretty good distinction, wouldn’t you think?!

FYI, because ACY is always short F/Os you can forget about dropping days.

Go to a regional, pays more and has a direct pathway to a real airline

This is INCORRECT info. You CAN drop an entire month of RESERVE and you WILL loose pay. I dropped an ENTIRE month of RESERVE as a newbie, thinking I could pick up, which you CANNOT.

I called them and they RE-instated a few of the RESERVE blocks.

This is just not accurate info. You will get ACY in training. If you are lucky, you may bid out of ACY and be somewhere else by the time you hit the line like I and a few other classmates did.

I myself was able to drop EVERYTHING out of ACY and other classmates too, picking up from another base.

Ok, It is accurate, and you cant always drop everything in ACY as an F/O.

If you're a reserve line holder you CAN NOT pick up. It's in the contract and flica is configured to prevent it. If scheduling is allowing you to pickup flying both of you are in violation of the contract and are hampering efforts to attain a fair contract.

Edit: the "you're" and "you" are generalizations.

Where in the quote did I say you can pick up on reserve? In fact a few posts ago I said that you cannot pick up on reserve. So the rest of your statement is pure emotional BS. Made you feel better to say it?

Re-read your post. The way you wrote it it's easy to assume you're saying someone awarded ACY out of training would be able to drop and swap. Granted they'd have a relief line first month and could swap but, after they'd likely be on reserve and wouldn't have that option. My comment wasn't intended as a slight against you but as a clarification for anyone considering coming here.