Section 25: Scheduling/PBS LOA
 

Pros and cons of ta

Looks like after PBS, reserves can’t drop anything. Only vacation float reserve days.

Yea that sucks bigtime.

How do you maximize vacation under the proposed PBS??

Call out fatigued for the first day of your next trip?

That's a huge win for the company and a hit for the pilot group whether you are on reserve or not. The ability to drop reserve days forces the company to keep reserve staffing much higher than what would be needed otherwise. This will also reduce the amount of 200% trips available.

Reading this section is giving me chills.... :eek:

25.I.1

Read it.

I see no definition of ‘operational recovery ‘.... Did they not allude to the fact they can’t run a “good airline”? This thing could be BAD. (I omitted lots of expletives....)

25.I.2.c

There’s no limitation that I see they can hold you hostage at the airport!! Did I miss something?! :eek:

Even more specific, only mandatory float vacation may be used. So once every rolling 12 months you can drop reserve days. Wtf

Something I find kind of ironic, soooooo many people *****ed on here how we didn’t have any special work rules. Then magically this TA comes out, and they all complain about the loss of work rules, what gives??? :rolleyes:

Haha. True.

Like “I don’t want PBS because it ruins QOL”

And then

“PBS takes all of our open time so I can’t pick up and work on my days off”

"Required daily minimum reserve coverage will be established by the Company based on its experience as to the number of required reserve pilots."
^^^
Needs improvement from current CBA.
"Experience" means nothing legally.
Must have concrete restrictions on % of reserves per day.


"A pilot who has blocked-in and is scheduled to proceed to the layover hotel may be required by Crew Scheduling to
remain at the airport after block-in in order to be rescheduled"

Say what? ... :eek:

Is anyone else concerned that it will be longer than a year for PBS to be implemented? It seems to me that the company gets a lot of concessions from us prior to the implementation and could drag their feet. The language, if I can recall correctly, uses the word "intends" to be completed within 12 months... the penalty for not implementing this is expedited arbitration. The word "intend" is just too vague, I would have preferred shall or must with a monetary penalty. I could see them taking this to the bottom of the ninth to put in place.

The whole sell of PBS is to gain better rigs and min per duty day. After reviewing vacation and reserve drops, the PBS language isn't great but section 25 (prior to PBS) is just awful...

Disclaimer: It was late when I read it last night and I could be wrong, just my initial thoughts.

I was a borderline yes vote but definitely leaning to a no vote.

yep. how the hell did alpa allow this??????

https://i.imgur.com/68aF1o1.jpg

they couldn't even fix the screw job we got with international flying....same BS exemptions

lmfao............lol

Out of base reserve. That’s a doozy..... Granted, you could rack up some serious credit above guarantee doing it, but still.... Those who bid reserve and live in base = no bueno.

This also allows the company to hold people in undesirable bases by floating reserves. Not good

For Commuters like myself its AWESOME.

Geeee, let me see, hang out at a crappy crashpad, or go to a hotel and make an easy extra few grand.

There is a lot of crap language in this T/A, don't get me wrong, lol but this isnt a big deal to me personally. For guys who live in base, sure....................(if and when it happens).


Amazing how so many guys were willing to circumvent the contract and ***** themselves out for Illegal JRM yet when things like this show up, where its EASY EASY money its like the end of the world.................

Scooby, you like section 25? :eek:

I dont think he “likes” it but he isnt being a dramaqueen about it either.

Work is work show up, move the metal and go home. Godforbid you cant hit up the stupid microbrewery to get your bull**** IPA because you got rescheduled.

Disagree, if I’m senior enough to be a line holder, my schedule should be sacred to me. Playing whack a mole with a line holder is the same as American, but they get paid a **** ton more to put up with said ****....

To each their own. I respect your decison, I really do. We all have our priorities

Fair enough, I agree, everyone’s personal priorities are their own. Either way this goes down, I hope we have a united pilot group for the inevitable meltdown regardless of a new contract.

Good luck “just coming to work and going home” when they can RESCHEDULE you into your days off. Hope you never make plans with your family again because in 2-3 years when all the legacies are full steam hiring and we can’t find a single pilot to come here will never see our family’s again with these work rules.


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I didn’t know Mesa flew Airbuses?

They cant ****ing schedule you into days off without your consent Get the facts. Same as it is now.

A lot of you guys better damn well show up to the roadshows. If you are going to vote no, fine, but at least know why.......

Can you please point me to the area it says they need our consent. I’m not seeing it?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a6a1249309.jpg



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Seriously??? They in essence created Airport Reserve by making you stay after block in for possible reassignment, trip integrity is gone. Ask any ex-regional guy what crew scheduling ends up doing to you with work rules this TA proposes. You’ll be used and abused, and seniority means nothing once you check in for your pairing. And in all honesty, my old regional had a better Section 25 than this garbage.

I love how you have blind faith that this management won’t abuse all this loose language and open ended statements. You’re going off of hope and not the actually TA language. This opens Pandora’s box for scheduling and they aren’t even offering industry standard pay for it. Come on.

Second to last sentence. This opens Pandora’s........
Please read and understand.

Glad that’s what you took away from it. Let me correct it for you...

“This opens up Pandora’s box for US in regards to scheduling...”

Good Lord!, charge that battery! gonna need all the battery you can get to answer scheduling s call for you 8 hr sits, lol in LBE

The vague language seems to be recurring problem thru out this TA. I lost count of how many times it let the company out of its obligations due to "Circumstances beyond its control"

I am pretty sure that will be defined as we will do whatever we and you alpa guys can spend the next several years fighting about it.

If the company ultimately wins they effectively void the CBA. If they loose they got a year or two without having to comply. It a win win for them. I guess by default thats a loose loose for us.

[QUOTE=Strike2;2520780]The vague language seems to be recurring problem thru out this TA. I lost count of how many times it let the company out of its obligations due to "Circumstances beyond its control"

I am pretty sure that will be defined as we will do whatever we and you alpa guys can spend the next several years fighting about it.

If the company ultimately wins they effectively void the CBA. If they loose they got a year or two without having to comply. It a win win for them. I guess by default thats a loose loose for us.[/QUOTE

Shhhh....you looser

Unintened consequences
 

Pilots are type A. We like to be in control of our lives and our schedules.

Loss of schedule integrity and rescheduling language, PBS, loss of reserve drops and new vacation bidding will all change our lives.

The unintended consequences of these changes will result in more sick calls, fatigue calls and an increase in intermittent FMLA.

At my former regional airline with similar work rules the motto was "a good schedule is only a sick call away."

Sadly, the work rules of this TA are eerily similar to a regional contract.

Good luck getting that MCO or LAX base. We have enough crews overnighting there to effectively staff the domicile with ready reserves 2 hours at a time.


This has abuse written all over it.

Good luck implementing PBS...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...F2b_-n&ampcf=1https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...610902f23a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e80e7ddc3c.jpg

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You may want to sell out your life for a few extra bucks, that's your choice.
If you think it's being a "drama queen" stating the fact that we have given up everything in Sect 25 and nothing will be left to negotiate in 5-7 years,
then you are being shortsighted and foolish. Take the "retro" and run!
I will refrain from name calling, but the oldest profession comes to mind...

LCR to SCR 4 times a month:
It's not clear in the TA.
If switched the first block day and then given a RAS,
CS will argue that were only switched one day and then got assigned.
So these RAS days will not count towards the 4.
Consequently may be switched to SCR on four blocks, if assigned a RAS.

Min of 2 LCR lines/base?
That's just funny!

"The company does not intend on using out of base reserves or rescheduling" !!??

Too many loopholes ...

Management is not stupid.
Listen to Christie during the investor meeting... what a sleaze ball!
"Stretch and learn"!!!