I agree in large part with what you say. There will be interpretation issues that we will have to grieve. But one question you have to ask yourself is that if we would vote this down, will there be enough improvements so that it is much more airtight? And it is worth waiting even longer?

I am voting no not because of fear, i am voting no because of experience. example: i don't fly through thunderstorms not because of fear, i don't fly through thunderstorms because of experience.

Fair enough, people could be voting "yes" based on experience too though. Your experience is not the only experience, and the unknown of this TA is the unknown, not definite Armageddon! Some will go 20NM from a TS some will go 40NM both could be based on the same level of experience.

as a lurker from Alaska let me sum up this paragraph. In 2009 and again in 2013 our negotiators played that same video. It worked both times. If you look at our contract today with no scope, no work rules, no productivity enhancements, lagging retirement(in 2009 we handed over our pension for nothing in return) and pay rates that lag 20% behind the big four you would see the results of fear based TA selling....It has cost us as a pilot group more than 100 million in lost wages and retirements.....That is the time value of money

Please repost this daily.

If we want to get paid like the big boys we need to grow some big balls.

Didn’t an arbitrator give you what you have today? I understand in the past but what’s the excuse now, for example, for not having scope today?

I think there is a big difference here. You haven't seen the entire video so you haven't really got the whole picture. We are getting much better scope, so much so that the ALPA attorney said it covered every plausible scenario. We are getting very big raises, on the average of 43%. We are getting a very good LTD and a DC plan that we didn't have before. We are getting rid of a 15 year pay scale and the worst slope I have ever seen with a 12 year scale and much improved slope. We are getting $14 in pay and benefits for every $1 we gave up. We are giving some things, but with these substantial gains I believe it would be foolish to turn this down.

An ALPA rep at the road show today said that he has been working with on contracts for various airlines for the past 40+ years and the 14 to 1 ratio is the highest he has ever seen by a large margin. After educating myself on the TA for several days and listening to factual information I feel that the NC did very well

I’m sorry but it isn’t a much improved slope. When 11-12 is darn near $10 that isn’t much improved.

I’m not arguing a cost neutral contract but we are trading work rules for money. It’s much clearer math when monetizing money than monetizing work rules. But it’s nice to see parroting what somebody said on a show you watched.

Ha, can't argue with facts but you will sure try. You're doing great

No you can’t.

Another poster shared the savings from 200 less pilots required and the cost differential decreased quite a bit, but it’s still in our corner, quite significantly.

These no voters can’t be reasoned with. The rumors that were spread on here today is proof of that. They’ll come up with anything.

Someone today, on the live streamed ORD road show, expressed concern about all the concessions. The NC did an excellent job explaining the process and why they reached the agreement they did, especially when talking about what the company really wanted.

Could the deal be better? Of course it could be. We could get everything we wanted. Do we live in a perfect world? No.

While some no voters have truely legitimate reasons for voting no, the majority on here are living in a pipe dream. APC is a terrible venue to try and gauge actual sentiment. Always has been always will.

Go back and look at my original post when the TA was posted. I shared the same feelings as many on here. I’ve since taken the time to get educated. Will they do the same?

You might want to listen again... Not one rep has spoken on any video. That was art... He has been around longer than you and me both. He is a pompous ass, but he isn't dumb. Before you try and quote someone, he sure your speaking truth. I happen to agree with your thoughts, but they should be based on facts. If not, you lose credibility.

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Greed by the top 10% and fear from the bottom 40%. It has been a membership priority to have scope but the Senior Seattle Mafia rolls up on the negotiators and prevents it....We are where we are by are own fault.....We have never had a TA that was close to a yes vote but the same story about being “parked” and losing gains etc has frightened 45% of our group and when you add that to the sleazy 15% at the top they win.....If your TA is good and you disregard the threats from the road shows and it stands on its own then vote it in and move on....Alaska is a classic example of what not to do....

Are you saying the 14-1 number isn't true? It has been stated on both the road show video and the live stream today.

I’m confused too. Maybe the Alpa rep part? Art works for Alpa. Therefore he is an Alpa representative. Or, Alpa rep, for short.

lol😂😂😂😂😂😂lol

Let's make this simple. Check the box that says I am in favor. Basically a yes vote.

Over at B6 and am wondering when your vote is?

I am not sure what your angle is but there are no tricks here. The information I gave is factual (but you knew that). Yes, he is smart. You would think people would listen to what he has to say

Closes the 28th.

No angle at all... Maybe I misread, but calling art a rep is misguided. No reps said anything at all in the videos. The lawyers and nc were the only ones speaking. It can be misleading to say a rep said something when it was actually a lawyer who is versed in what he was speaking about. Reps may or may not actually know what they are talking about. Sorry if I misunderstood...

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I won't argue semantics. At the end of the day we are on the same team. I am not trying to pick or favor sides, I simply wanted to share a pretty powerful piece of information that resonated with me. Voting yes or no is a decision each individual is entitled to make and I would never fault anyone for voting one way or another.

Holy crap. Yes, Art is a lawyer. He’s also an Alpa rep since he works for Alpa. So does the labor lawyer and the economics lady. All Alpa reps.

So, I'm guessing you don't understand why I said calling him a rep is misleading. There are many apathetic pilots out there who don't even know who their reps are. It wouldn't be too hard of a stretch for someone to misunderstand you and take your information the wrong way. Reps, in the whole airline lingo tend to mean something different than lawyer, even though in the real world your rep might mean your lawyer. Whatever though. Holy crap me all you want.

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I finally got around to view the video.

All I can say wow! What an utter disappointment. I can’t believe how many times I heard the word “concession”.

FAIL 2018.

Not saying the TA is the best thing since sliced bread, but that is your dumbest comment yet (for today at least...). It could have been "there were no concessions in....." fifty times and you would still be"right" in what you said. Why not at least explain where the problem is.

Maybe we were watching different videos.....?

Just watched to make sure:
1:10:16 can't call in sick for parents anymore
1:12:00 no more reserve drops
those are the only time the word concession was used.

If you feel a contract is substandard you shouldn't vote yes on it because you are afraid of the "what if" with the NMB.


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I’m sorry I Clicked on the wrong ALPA link.

This is the video I was watching by mistake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiPC0r-AIsQ

[QUOTE=Klsytakesit;2526615]as a lurker from Alaska let me sum up this paragraph. In 2009 and again in 2013 our negotiators played that same video. It worked both times. If you look at our contract today with no scope, no work rules, no productivity enhancements, lagging retirement(in 2009 we handed over our pension for nothing in return) and pay rates that lag 20% behind the big four you would see the results of fear based TA selling....It has cost us as a pilot group more than 100 million in lost wages and retirements.....That is the time value of money[/QUOTE

Thank you!