The TA Road Show video is now online!
 

Everyone should check it out if you haven't made it to a road show. There are two sections, the slide presentation and the Q and A portion. There is lots of great information and good questions posed to to NC. Get informed before you vote.

Most on here won’t watch it, they’re not interested in facts.

When’s the vote?

Oh jesus I hope you are asking as an outsider?, lol.

Its open now and closes the 28th with a “74%” ratification announced shortly after

You are absolutely right on that. 34:45into Q&A video should be really thought about.

For those who didn't look it up like I did, it's Paul S. talking about if this is voted down, the NMB will be in no hurry to get us back to the bargaining table. We could be on our current contract for a very long time. And the NMB is not on our side. It would be a substantial amount of money, benefits, and scope protection lost during that time. Not good.

Did Paul S. happen to mention what Spirit Airlines motivation will be to get us back to the table after proclaiming to Wall Street that it needs a new contract that...

"will gain tools that will allow us to further improve our operational reliability and drive efficiencies, which gives us confidence that we will be able to maintain or grow our relative cost advantage."

Why are so many of you vocal yesses also heathens? Really helps get your point across to use the Lord’s name in vain. Since you’re obviously really into APC now I’ll catch you up. Sooner9 first trolled his way in here asking about pay then stated he couldn’t do it because his job pays more. A year later he’s again interested because our first year pay is about to blow up.

It locks in labor rates, reduces amount of total pilots, and allows them to order more aircraft. Spirit will be able to recover from IROPs in a more timely manner, like every other airline. They can continue to offer the cheap fairs that Spirit is known for.

Gotta love the “Burn it down” mentality.

Would it make you feel better if the company lied?

The company got a lot of things that they needed to run a large airline, they certainly didn’t get everything they wanted. What they got, cost them.

From the LAS road show video, it seems RES drops was the casualty of May and the NC wasn’t happy about it.

Difference is he was the one that’s been sitting across from Management and the Mediator for the last 30 months. Not you. But you know better. Interesting.

SPOILER ALERT!

TA SUCKS!

Most movies do not put gag-reel out first. This one funny, but anyone know when real presentation is coming out?

Pure FUD...........

good to see they do not resort to high pressure sales tactic.

Hoping when you quit i move up a number.

He looked tired (understandably) and defeated. No bueno.

So let’s share in this with some profit sharing. If pay isn’t going to be anything special let’s share in all these new efficiencies

LOL you would too man if you had to deal with this shet day and night for the past 3 years. Alos that's how Stuart always looks, you must be new.

An ALPA rep should never-ever sell a TA this way. Threatening loooooooong negotiations if voted down, is a slippery slope, and disingenuous in the least and a bald faced lie at the worst. He doesn’t know for sure. Could it take a long time? Yes. Could it be resolved within a reasonable timeframe? Yes. Certainty is a fools game in this regard. Vote on the merits of the TA strictly, does it satisfy your professionalism and sacrifice? Good luck.

Great another legacy guy coming in here trying to tell us "little people" how to vote. You did not see the video and therefore did not see the context of how this question was answered. Because of that you wouldn't know that the first words out of his mouth when answering the question was "my job is not to sell you this ta".

Because you also don't work here you wouldn't know that the NBM has blue balled us throughout this whole process because we are only a 112 airplane airline. And to them a 43% pay raise along with industry standard LTD, Scope, trip rigs, and health insurance (to name a few) was more than enough. It's easy to be sitting over at DAL right now telling us how we should and should not vote, but when we have FO's making 38 bucks an hour and the entire pilot group staring an almost 50% pay raise in the face it makes it difficult to play the bluff game. If this TA is ratified it will be the highest percentage pay increase in the history of the railway labor act, no small feat.

But again thank you for checking in on us little people.

Probably won’t, he’s still first year.

Thank you for your post and support.
Not all of us have an inferiority complex and we welcome suggestions from the outside.
This T/A will only pass due to FEAR.
The NC is beaten up, exhausted and sued, they do not want to go back for more. They did what they could.
I thank them, understand and sympathize.
However it is not the mediator nor the NC that will be motivated to return, it will be management.
The scheduling concessions are too tempting and will otherwise cost them cancellations this summer.
Our vote will show who we are as a group, and how we think of this job.
These are my 3rd negotiations and I'm shocked at the level of fear...and lack of fighting spirit of some.
Very disparaging to admit it.

This may come as news to you but a large majority of pilots want a 12 year pay scale. sorry.

LMAO I still some of what you are smoking man!

You are not kidding.




https://media.makeameme.org/created/...-in-5a816a.jpg

Since you are bringing up the military, how exactly does this compare to going from colonel pay to captain or major? You’d be going from 185 to 237. That’s a pay raise. You understand that right? Who gives a $hit what year they call it? You are acting like you are taking a pay cut. If anything, it’d be the exact opposite. Sorry colonel, we are going to have to demote you to junior major, but we’ll pay you as a Lt. Gen. Can’t even believe that’s where somewhere decides to vote yes or no.

The company has said they will NOT negotiate without the NMB. So yes. It will be a long time to get another deal if this gets voted down. I hope all the no voters realize this and are comfortable with dealing our next TA something like 2 years.

All a part of the game. Company can say that and turn around to do the exact opposite. They did not sign a contract which tied them to that statement so they don't have to live by it.

Purpose of why they would state that? For the exact reason that you posted, make you think you won't get sh** for years forcing your decision to vote yes.

When sh** hits the fan for company, just watch them run back quickly, especially for this summer (3- 4 months away).

Just focus on if the TA makes sense for you, not on what management or NMB claims. Else you'll vote in fear.

You could be right. Possibly, but they didn’t come running back to the table after September. It took the NMB to get them back. And if we do go back to the table, the company could ask for some things back that they weren’t too thrilled with either. There is a give and take. It seems like all the NO warriors think we will just get everything we hope for if it gets voted down. The reality is that it could go either way, it’s a negotiation, give and take.

True. Could go either way, just vote based on if the TA makes sense for you, not whether they would come back to the table within 2 years or within 4 months. If you don't like the TA then vote no, if you do then vote yes. We all should jus keep in mind that whatever is agreed upon today will haunt for 7-8 yrs. And if the company take back money then they need to give back work rules.

So the real question is, based on what's in this TA (concessions vs pay and QOL), can you live with it for 7-8 yrs?

They would say this whether or not they’d negotiate without the NMB. Doesn’t make it true. I voted yes and I’m not that gullible. No one knows what will happen in terms of the companies reaction to a no vote.

I agree. Things like this Should be part of your decision process. Giving up a raise of $65K+/year, giving up great LTD, risking going with our much less substantial scope, and not having a substantial DC for however long it takes needs to be factored in to everyone's decision.

If you believe the NC, they are all of one mind that we wouldn't get much more by turning this down, we could wait a looooong time, and may have to give up more.

Some guys are upset about losing transition, or checkerboard reserve, or other things. Even if we turn down the TA, those things are almost certainly gone with the next TA, so what will you have gained?

I hope everyone who voted no at least saw a road show. You are doing yourself and the pilot group a disservice if you didn't.

I watched some of the video yesterday and will watch the rest today. So far it is very infomative and professional, as is always the case with our NC.

Nice to see since I couldn’t attend a road show.

Watch the videos, get the facts, laugh at the rediculousness of APC know-it-alls.

Sorry I dont have a meme. :rolleyes:

This is a good post!

Yea,.... he didn't. He was extremely careful to make sure it didn't sound like what you are portraying. He was answering a direct question about what might happen if we vote no, giving his best idea on the reality of the situation. Absolutely did not sound like a fear mongering sales pitch. Quite the opposite.

Hey, I can Vote soooo yes I’m Kinda new, but far from being new to the Alpa tactics. LOL;)

Thanks, you have obviously been there before.^
Some posters in here are really inexperienced/gullible.
Even if they signed, there are ways out of it.
Why would management disclose their true plans, are you serious?
Their job is to fool us into this, because it's a great deal for them!
They will paint an armageddon to scare you into voting YES.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Jq7y34Hgfy01y/giphy.gif

Here's the problem otter, there is so much new and grey area in this TA it will used against us horribly. it took years to get them to honor the last contract. you will be doing things you don't think you have to do because 'that's not the way we interpret it'. we have been through it before. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. Alpa does not care about us, they just want our hourly rate up so it can't be used against them and their favorite airlines. FLY IT AND GRIEVE IT will become your new mantra

So you want to vote it down and negotiate for a new TA that doesn't have much language changed? So basically current book + delta rates, 15%DC, own occupation LTD and southwest scope? Your other option is to vote it down and plan on no new TA. Because the one thing that is completely unrealistic is industry standard pay, retirement, scope, with no changes to section 25 and no pbs.

I mean, a new contract is going to have a lot of new language, so what exactly is your point?

This guy and some of the other hardcore "no" voters on here are trying to rally others in to their camp by any means possible. There are legitimate reasons I can see folks not liking this TA, however, these guys don't want to have a constructive arguments, They just want to insult those that disagree with them and use scare tactics.
Based on SG last post I'd say he/she is voting out of fear, fear that others on here are claiming is the only reason people are voting yes. Not saying that none of those fears are founded, however, kind of ironic...

Very succinct!