What will GYE be worth after PBS implement
 

F4251

3 day trip. Fll-GYE layover GYE-FLL

T.A.F.B. 3415
Block 11:00
Credit 11:00 (currently)
Layover 20:45
TDuty 13:30
FDP 12:30

What will this be worth after our new rules go into effect?

P.s. please show your work.

Thank you

Well

It would be the greater of block, trip rig, duty period, 5 hr average duty period.

Block: 11 hours
Trip Rig: Just under 9.8 hours (34:15/3.5)
Duty Rig: 6.75 hours (13:30/2)
Duty period average: 10 hours (5 hours)

Block is the highest number, therefore the trip will pay 11 hours. No change, right?

correct me if I'm wrong, but it's duty period per day is it not?

Doesn't change the answer, but just a point to be made.

I just looked up pairing F4251 and I don’t know what you were looking at but you were way off.

FLL to GYE to FLL: Block 9:10 / Credit 13:30....layover 23:50
TAFB: 35:30

Block:9:10
Duty Rig: 11:40/2 = 5:20
Trip Rig: 35:30 /3.5 = 10:08
Duty Period= 2 = 10 hours will fall short of 24 hour layover after PBS.

So: 10:08 plus 8% override actually you get 10:57 total credit

That’s what I came up with. Thank you.

I thought the new rules were designed to protect us from these inefficient pairings. This isn’t the only one. There are many more out there and probably more to come. The company gets three working days of our life for 11:00 credit.

Unless DTW crews do it. DTW-FLL-GYE ..then Reverse it next day. We can fly up to 9 hours now so that’s for sure doable. Pairing constriction will change quite a bit system wide . Some will
Be much better and efficient , some will
Prolly suck.. some are good now and some suck. But with growth, change in Rigs, and Increase to 9 hours , I don’t think we can compare today’s pairing to what they’ll look like in 12 months

I’m sorry I was looking at too many things at once.

F4287 is FLL - LAX layover LAX-FLL
THREE DAY AT 10:57

F4251 is FLL-GYE layover GYE-FLL
THREE DAY 10:57

*************Down from 13:30 credit post pb********************

So, post PBS WILL BE A PAYCredit CUT for this particular pairing.

WTF

Some trips will be adversely affected. The vast majority of them, assuming no other changes, will be higher crediting. For example, my line in March would be worth an additional 9 hours.

Hopefully the JPWG having access and input to the pairing optimizer will be largely beneficial.

Plus, like another poster said, increased fleet sized will have a large effect on pairings. More than likely to our benefit.

P.S. Congrats on another international layover!

Dude, Do you read the weather forecast before you push off the gate or do you hope for the best?

Are we still going to retain NO REDEYE plus one?

This. One guy at the roadshow went through every pairing and said (iirc) that 94% would pay more and 6% pay less. But the pairings will most certainly change when we get the rigs and 5 hr min duty period.

Now analyze all the other 1000’s of pairings (like ALPA already did) and let us know if you find them overall to be lower. Then you will have made your point. Otherwise you are just being misleading to cherry pick one pairing.

No doubt they suck. NC even admits they fought on this but couldn’t get the company or mediator on board.

Thing is we have them in our schedules already. With the new rules they will pay slightly more. My guess is they will get dropped and hopefully they end up as trips that no one picks up and maybe they turn into 200% trips. Who knows.

So you think they are going to build enire lines of these. We have them already. And if reducing the pilot force is the plan of PBS it doesn’t look to me to be a very efficient way of doing it when I only fly 10 or 11 hours every 3 days.

Dude ,
I’m saying the way they build the pairings
Will most
Definitely change .. for the reasons I listed . Looking at today’s pairings and comparing them
To what they ‘might pay’ under PbS a full year from now... that pairing might not even exist a year from now as it does today. The 9 hours flying, rigs and lack of month to month transition will certainly change pairing construction .. so saying today’s pairing is x credit will
Be next years Y credit is irrelevant the way i see it .. pairings will look vastly different I suspect

GYE might be crap
10
Hour ‘3 day’ or it could be part of a whopping 27 hour 4 day for Vegas crews...who knows

Agree

I just hope 10 hour 3 days don’t become rampant.

I’m with you there. Of all the things good and bad in the agreement this is my biggest concern. But since we already have these in our schedules I can’t see them increasing. My hope is things get more efficient which means getting credit in fewer days.
Already too many lines last bid that were 17 day work lines.

With the new pay rates you will actually be making more money on this paring. Would you rather credit more under the current pay rates or make more money? I wish we would have gotten the 5hr day, instead of 5 hr per duty period as well. The thing is this paring is in the minority. It will probably end up in open time, and a RSV will get it. The majority of RSV never break gurantee anyways, so when I was a RSV I loved these easy parings. I think with the new duty rigs taking place whe PBS is implemented will raise a lot of these 4 days from 18 hrs to 22hrs to 25 hrs 4 days. The company doesn’t like to pay for soft time, so I think you will see the company use the optimizer to build more productive pairings to eliminate as much soft time as they can. ( the Union said the same thing at the Road Show) .

Are you kidding me. You are “assuming” the company is going to leave pairings the same and not tale advantage of the new loop holes to save millions. YGTBSM. Wake up!!!! Spirit Managment is about to take over your life and all those days you “use” to have off. Not only that they are paying industry bottom total compensation package for it.

Another thing that you are going to find with PBS is unstacking and min credit threshold movement in high demand months. So 4-5 months a year a majority of the pilots will be forced to fly higher credit hour lines even if thats not what they want. Show me the PBS verbiage. Oh wait.....

This contract sells your soul to the devil for a little pay bump. Hope you enjoyed your schedual flexibility because its gone now.

The layover on pairing F4251 is 25:05 block in to out so would therefore trigger the extra duty period payment. Right or not?

Long vs. short stay says block in to block out but the extra credit only says “layover”. I believe you subtract the 1:15 from that number you have.

I thought you were employed elswhere now. Why are you still posting on the NK forum and why are you so invested in the construction of our pairings?