5-10%


fillllller

depends on the system. there are systems out there that favor 70% over 30%.

thankfully Navblue is not one of them

Classic :)

4 days OFF is useless and we lost negotiating capital, by keeping it.
Management did not care, because they knew it would have no affect.
As correctly noted above,
PBS will force most middle to lower seniority bidders to WAIVE 4 days off to attain more desirable results.
Surprised the NC did not realize that...
Only very top seniority (10-15%) will get most requests.
I truly hope those 4 days are important to the senior folks.

I’m trying to follow this logic, the entire schedule is built now with 4 days off but with Pbs it will only be possible for the very senior to get this?

Not waiving 4 days off puts you at a disadvantage, you may get it at the price of other requests.

I understand that, but as it is now you have the 4 days off and you are stuck with the 6 day stretches or trips you don’t like, unless you are really senior to get what you want. I’m skeptical about Pbs but saying the 4 days off is useless is not really true.

I guess I am surprised they wouldn’t want efficient trips. I would think efficiency would help them in the goal of fewer pilots. The more less efficient pairings they have the more pilots they need.

Looking at current trips most will pay 2 to 4 hours more with the 3.5/1 trip rig. The way I see it is either the pairings in pbs should pay more which means you can get to guarantee in fewer days or if they wanted to keep the same pay for pairings that we have now then I still am home more. I would think the 3.5:1 trip rig will have the most effect. It should make it possible to hit guarantee in 1 to 2 fewer days worked a month. Me personally all I want it to do my 72 hours and be done. Anything they try to build above that I’m dropping.

The system has to honor fars and any contract language to build you a legal line. If it cannot do that then you are on reserve/relief unless you waive contractual rules in subsequent bid groups....

I’m relatively new to Spirit. I had a 4 day trip that the last day was 1 leg back to domicile and I’m finished at 10am. There was a turn at 11 that would have added about 5 hours to my 4 day making it a a 26 hour 4 day. All legal with the FARs. In my mind I’m thinking 3 of these and I’ve got 75 hours with 18 days off. But I found out that our contract states that I must have 10 hours rest between pairings and or show times. I am not allowed to enhance my schedule. In my opinion the company could have easily made that a single pairing but for some reason don’t. I wish the language in the contract would have allowed us to pickup that extra time while forbidding the company from assigning it. Like the 29 in 7 company restriction where we can do 30 in 7. Maybe we can get that in the PBS LOA?

They say they can't because it's 2 check instead in one day.

In reality, they should just be able to adjust your pairing and add it, So it's not 2 check-ins. It's 100% legal per FARs

Better to leave those in open time so hopefully someone on the x/y list gets a shot at 200%

“Hopefully” doesn’t work for me. My goal at Spirit is to maximize my pay while at the same time maximize my days off. If I work for only 12 days and net 75 hours then that’s 18 other days that they can “hopefully” dole out 200%. It all comes out in the wash. They have X amount of flying and Y amount of pilots. It’s the same if I maximize my days off. I’m just asking for the pairings to be more productive.

If you’re on reserve would you rather come in and do a turn or do an overnight? If you’re a commuter I would guess overnight. Saves on a hotel/crash pad.

Welcome to Spirit!
We have a Collective Bargaining Agreement here. Learn to maximize your bang for the buck within the constraints of the CBA. You’ll find ways to exploit the agreement to accomplish your stated goal without betraying your union brothers and sisters, and as a group we will enforce compliance from the company.

FAR compliance is a must of course, but so is CBA compliance.

TWIRI according to the CBA within 3 hours they can do what they want, so adding a pairing to you pairing is CBA compliant. The 2 check-ins only refers to check in after a rest, no rest no check in.

Having said that, They can only do that a exhausting X/Y, so only do it for 200%.

Welcome, honestly I hope you keep your SWA app updated. In my time here I have averaged around 50 hours block, for 80 hours of pay, BUT average 15 days off. If you want 80 block 100 pay 18 day off, guess what...

I don’t want 80 block for 100 pay. Never said that and never hinted at it.

It would be nice if the CBA constrained the company while allowing us some flexibility. Again, just like the 29 in 7 company restraint allowing us 30 if we choose.

If you had your choice would you rather have a 4 day at 200% or a turn? As for me I’d rather have a 4 day at 200%. Right now I need 4, four day trips to get to 72 hours. If I could do 3 four day trips for the same credit then that would be an extra 4day in open time that would possibly go for 200%.

I’ll quit beating my drum. We just think differently. I think we want the same conclusion and to accomplish the same goal with the CBA we just think differently and see this scenario through different lenses. I think my way would actually increase the chance of an X Y list call.

We don’t think entirely different. I agree with you in favoring efficient trips. I don’t even want to drive to the airport, let alone hop on a commute to report for a 4 day worth 14-18 hours. That’s garbage! I prefer 3 days worth 21 hours or 4 days worth 28. Here’s the deal though, we just amended this CBA and it’s not changing for a while. It’s good to contemplate future improvements because the cycle of negotiations repeats itself. For now though our CBA rules over how the company deals with us and how we deal with them.

Yes you’d be doing one less 4 day trip but you’d be covering the same amount of block hours. It’s a zero affect on open time.

To your earlier point, they do toy with building those 5-6hr turns to the back end of 4 day trips occasionally.

The byproduct is less turn lines for those senior and used to getting turns. Also, more junior crews flying to unfamiliar challenging airports day 4 after a very early show and a sit as opposed to a well rested senior crew that does it everyday during bankers hours. Lastly, any delay taken on that first leg in the morning translated into legality issues for the crew and often pulling that last turn and scrambling to cover the last turn at 200%. To the company that’s another delay and soft time, both things they don’t want.

I don’t watch the pairings as much these days so I don’t know if they still play with this much or if they decided to go one way or the other. It used to be one month many turn lines then poof the next month they pushed all that flying to still unproductive 4 days but the last day is 3 legs worth 8hrs. Those months everyone got unproductive 4 days instead of just some.

Incorrect. Second sentence of 25.I.1. More specifically addressed in 25.I.3

The only thing they have relief on inside three hours is using a Y list over an available reserve or 25.G.2.b.5 which means they can go straight to junior assignment if they need.

They absolutely cannot just tack stuff on to the end of your pairing.

Careful what you ask for. I have had a trip with a turn tacked on at the end (way it was built). The turn resulted in minutes of extra pay compared to the rig without it.

Same here.
Rescheduled for 2 extra legs for 30mins of pay!!!

To be fair I don’t think you flew your entire pairing as scheduled with a turn just added on. That’s is not compliant

To be contract compliant it would have to be built into the original trip (avoiding the 2 check-ins). This can alter the trip to be based on block vs. rig. Ex-4 day one leg/day = 4.5 x 4=18:00. Add a turn at the end and you end up w/ block 18:30.

You are correct, I was talking about volunteering to have the trip added to the end of your pairing.

I don’t know how restrictive the “timely” requirement is, do the have to call everyone or can they assume the pilots won’t be able to get there in time once you get to say one hour to show?
25 G 2 b 5
“In the event a pilot in subparagraphs 1−4 above cannot get into position to timely cover the open flying, the Company may select the junior available pilot in category physically closest to the location where the open flying occurs.”

You said you wanted max days off, work more on days on, maybe I used the wrong numbers, what I meant was, generally our schedules are very inefficient. You talked about working 12 days, so 18/19 days off. In LAS we have 110 hard lines, 2 have 17 days off 14 have 16. IMO you will never see 18/19 days off.

Yes I thought we were talking rescheduling. You cannot do your scheduled pairing and then get a turn added at the end is what I thought we were talking about.

Trying to wonder if these lines really could get worse under PBS. I just don’t see how they couldn’t get better with better rigs. These lines blow a$$. In DTW at least 12 lines with only 13 days off and 36 with only 14 days off. In a 31 day month. Out of I think 76 lines.

How can schedules not get better? Trip/duty rigs. 5hr average duty period. Trips will be worth more leading to more days off or higher credit. This period we are in now between signing of the new contract and PBS is as bad as it gets in my opinion. I look forward to PBS

I am sure out lives will be much better under PBS. I am also pretty sure I was abducted and abused by aliens last night. At least under PBS I know who is fisting me.

Majority of lines in DTW are 85hrs plus credit and most are well over 300hrs TAFB. Was reserve last summer. Is this normal for summer or are the doing something new here. Last month most lines TAFB was 230 to 260. I keep telling myself the better trip rig and duty period avg will improve this.

depends on the pairing construction. garbage in garbage out. remember its not min day its min duty period

Trying to understand why such a change from last month. TAFB and avg credit for lines is way up. About 60 to 80 hrs more TAFB and 85% of the lines are above 83 hrs credit. 50% avg 88hrs.

summer travel season

making sure the last 12 months before PBS have high averages so they can justify PBS creating lines at 85 hours.......

Why not bid back to rsv

If I lived just a little closer I think I would. I’m right at 3 hrs to parking.

Good point.
We must limit max credit, or did we give that option away too?

Because Res QOL was given away by severely limiting drops to ONE block
and NO drops under the "anticipated" PBS.
Before the company trolls attack...
I never checker boarded and do not live on base.
Failure to stand up to bendo-bob and their tantrum demands on reserve drops,
will be an embarrassing low of our union's history.
Inexcusable negotiation failure, to not compromise to limiting drops from the outside in.

Bending over as Alphafloor correctly mentioned above:
Classic!;)