QOL not living in base
 

Hi Everyone,

I have an upcoming interview with Spirit. I am excited for this opportunity. I was told during the phone interview that LAS was senior. I have no airline/121 experience so please bear with me.

I currently live in LA. LAS would be my choice of base. I’m looking for some insight on how my life would look if I got hired tomorrow, 6 months from now, a year from now, etc.

I’m taking a large pay cut if I’m lucky enough to be offered a position. I want to go in eyes wide open. My wife has a good job and financially we can swing it. Looking down the road the money will surpass what I’m making now. I’m tired of the uncertainty of the 91/135 world. I know 121 has it’s ups and downs as well but feel now is the time to make the switch.

I know living in base is ideal but not an option (for the moment at least). If I finish training later this year, how much time should I expect to be commuting and away from home?

I’m looking for honest and even conservative estimates on how much time I’ll actually be home, how it will impact my earning potential (breaking guarantee), having to live in a crash pad, etc. I understand it’s going to be a sacrifice and a big decision for the family. I want to make sure there’s a light at the end of the tunnel and not I’m not just trading one evil for another.

I appreciate any insight and honest opinions. PMs are welcome.

Sounds like you are flying corporate... out of VNY, or SMO?

Although a certain base is considered “senior“ here, it does not mean what that may mean at a legacy. We’re talking months not years to get your base of choice. We bid for seat/base monthly and historically there are openings in nearly every slot each month. Under our old contract time on reserve (only time you’d need a crash pad in LAS) was abnormally low due to the flexibility reserve allowed. This led to more senior pilots bidding it. Not sure if that’s still the case since we are now limited on reserve drops. We do now have a “long call reserve” of which I know nothing about other than you could do it from LA once able to hold it. Once you’re not spending multiple nights on end in LAS there are hotels cheap enough to avoid a full on crash pad.

LAX to LAS is an easy commute with many options per day. You’ll enjoy a great quality of life within 6 months.

I'm middle of the seniority list in LAS (on the left side), getting 50 or so people below you in LAS would take around a year. At that point you have a lot of flexibility in how much you want to work, as long as you hold a hard line (non reserve) there is no limit on picking up/dropping down, provided you can do it before they run out of reserves/open time. I plan for 75 hours of credit but need to do a lot of trading to accommodate my wife's schedule. Most of this is relatively easy at Spirit, because of the required reserve coverage we have. I commute, don't have a crash pad. Even the few months on reserve I gambled on getting called out, with hotels at $40/night it's doable. Most trips start late, so easy to commute in on the first day of work, I have a red-eye option so always get home after the trip, maybe 1-2 nights hotel max. I think there is a few that occasionally drive from LAX. I have flown with quite a few ex91 that were making $200K+, they're all pretty happy about having a set schedule.

What sort of schedule flexibility do y’all have on reserve? Has it been affected by the new contract? From reading up it seems like Spirit has historically had good flexibility and I’m wondering if/how that’s changed recently. I’m considering Spirit but out of DFW with an easy commute.

I avoid reserve like the plague, have young kids and worked xmas last year because I could not make myself put a reserve line in my bid. There is really no flexibility. You bid you get a line, you are on reserve the days that are on your line. Flame away, checkerboarders ;)

Welcome to 121! I think you made a wise choice. Not only will you probably someday surpase what you make now but the retirement and health insurance is something that’s even unheard of out side the major airlines. (For the most part).

On reserve yes, you will probably spend more days at a crash pad or hotel (I always went with a cheap $40 hotel and hoped I got called out and didnt have to keep paying for a room) depending on the reserve line you get plan on only being home 12-15 days of the month.

In my honest opinion commuting sucks. I would try to life in base. However LAX-LAS doesn’t seem that bad...my commute was further.

But things are exciting at Spirit, we are growing fast and there is a huge announcement they are making on Facebook on Monday.

Commuting vs living in base is no comparison. Commuting to reserve is hell on earth in my opinion. Reserve living in base can in many cases be better than a line assuming you are bidding and getting reserve lines you want because swapping is not possible.

Not sure what Vegas is like other than it’s one of the more commutable bases but the flying is generally less productive (read more working days for the same money) and lots of red eye. I live in another base and my wife and I actually considered moving the family to Vegas for a few years just to live and be out west. But trips were too unbareable to me so we stayed put. To each his own though.

Halon do you even work for spirit?

Reserve sucks now for sure. Agreed no flexibility. Until pbs you are allowed to drop days from one block outside in. Which when DOT opens is like playing Russian roulette with a slow moving target. DOT is so slow and takes hours to process so it gets really hard to guess which reserve block you have the best chance of dropping days. Once pbs starts and you are on reserve you are screwed basically no dropping at all. If I still have the great misfortune to be on reserve when pbs starts I will commute to a base where I can hold a line.


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Do you live in base now? You’re saying you would commute from one base to another just for a line?

Reserve info:
I do not live on base and NEVER checker-boarded, neither did I support that practice, although absolutely within that CBA.
When I bid reserve, I was awarded my first choice, which helped in getting transitions regularly.
I worked two blocks and always flew, for minimum hotel stay.

Under the new CBA, it has gotten far worse.
Very hard to drop.
Since we gave them X/Y lists and limited drops...CS does not need us, and does not play "nice" anymore.
It may be just me, since I don't work out "deals", but they won't even release you 1hr early... on your last day?!
They play games with the new FOs, by trying to get them to violate the CBA, assuming they are misinformed or intimidated.
I have flown with junior reserve FOs who were given "tough" choices...
Be intimately familiar with Sect.25 for rescheduling and reserve rules.
Call the scheduling committee if in doubt, the chairman is extremely helpful.

In brief, Reserve has become undesirable under the new "CBA".
It will become unbearable under PBS, and that is forever!

Oh, but we got 43% ...

QOL not living in base
 

Yes I live in base now and if I can’t hold a line by the time pbs starts I will commute to a base where I can. It honestly crossed my mind now.....


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We still get auto released 6 hours prior to the end of our last RAP if not called. Even a few years ago when I was on reserve I could never get CS to release me more than 6 hours prior. I won’t argue that reserve QOL took a hit under the new CBA but I also have noticed that a lot of senior guys still appear to be bidding it. As far as the X/Y list goes, it’s far superior to the old junior manning system.

So how long could a new hire expect to sit reserve before holding a line at the various bases?

right now it looks like about 9 months to a year from date of hire to hold a composite/relief line/ maybe a hard line.

Huge announcement on Monday? Hmmmmmmmmm. The last “big” announcement was underwhelming about Wi-Fi. Would love a big aircraft order to facilitate growth (and accelerate upgrade opportunities)... :)

I would highly advise against this. As a seven year commuter that lives in base that wouldn’t even enter my mind. No doubt reserve took a hit in the new CBA but as mentioned earlier we still have some very sernior pilots bidding it so it can’t be that bad otherwise we would only see those unable to hold a line on reserve and that’s not the case in all bases. I can agree that interactions with scheduling have become a bit more tense as they fight to set precedent on how section 25 is interpreted. I’ve correceted them on a few things that I’d consider “oversights” not blatant disregard for the contract. I don’t think it’s out of the question that they would try to “trick” new FOs but I don’t think it’s a cultural norm over in Miramar either. Knowing your contract is paramount as always and remain professional on the phone.

If you are getting beat up on reserve AND live in base I would suggest bidding the least used RAP. This can be easily found out by talking to other reserve pilots. No one wants you to come steal their line so I suggest talking to guys senior to you if you want truthful answers. I know that in some bases that QOL can range from unbearable to down right desirable depending on RAP.

Thanks, I’ve commuted for years before this job so I know the game. It’s not so much getting “beat up” on reserve as the loss of flexibility to work around my wife’s schedule. After over a year on reserve (closer to two) I am absolutely willing to commute to have a line and flexibility again.


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I got you. I can see that if you need to change stuff after the month starts. Being a “senior” reserve bidder I’d expect you could find line that gives you the days off you want and least used RAP. I’d actually expect that to improve under pbs assuming you’re a senior reserve bidder.

Hahah Senior reserve is a relative term. I’m not senior and bid down to reserve, I’ve just been on it long enough that I can generally get my 3-4 choice. 6 days on is too long work opposite my wife’s schedule.


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If your bidding down to reserve why would you have to commute for a line? Just bid a line in the base you live in. Not all reserve is 6 duty periods. Some are five and give you the whole day at home on both day one and six. Too each his own though

QOL not living in base
 

Sorry I guess rereading it, it was a little confusing when I said “not senior and bid down to reserve.” What I mean is I’m not one of the senior guys bidding down to reserve, I can’t actually hold a line.


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I ain’t read good neither

been commuting since 2006, do not commute, no matter how short the flight, its a completely dif job living in base. if it wasnt for my kids i would have moved years ago

Any idea how long it will take to hold ORD as an FO? Or are they shipping people there right out of training?

Looks like a May 2018 hire will hold ORD starting September 1.

Appreciate the info, any idea where new hires are being sent to out of training?

Almost always ACY, sometimes they get another base right off the bat.

How long can a new hire expect to wait to hold FLL? Thanks in advance.

And how about DFW?

It looks like both should be attainable by the time you are off OE.

Actually one of the new hires in the July class is projected to be awarded DFW on his or her initial bid assignment, at least until the guys in the classes ahead of him get wind and put their bid in for DFW to snatch it from him.

To the OP;
I commute LAX to LAS as a middle of the road FO. Out of training, I got ACY for 1 month and DTW for 1 month, then got LAS as a base. This changes month by month so your mileage may vary.

It took about 9 months from date of hire to get a line. Reserve wasn't too bad compared to my regional airline. If there was something they were going to call you for, it was generally on your schedule 24 hours in advance (which is something nice most other airlines will not do). If you are trying to be cost-effective, you will need a crashpad while commuting on reserve. Once you have a line, it isn't necessary if you'd rather do hotels. I fly with a handful of commuter captains who still keep crashpads. The comfort of knowing you have a bed to sleep in regardless of what happens with your commute can be nice.

LAX to LAS is considered an easy commute and a lot of guys here (and at delta, united, virgin, ect) do it. I use the word 'easy' based on the frequency of flights per day and the fact that it is mostly mainline with two jumpseats that operate the flights. With that being said, as mentioned above, any commute is very undesirable and adds a lot of unnecessary displeasure and stress to this job. Some deal with it better than others and you will hear different opinions on how 'bad' XXX commute is.

With all that being said, to ultimately answer your original question, even as a commuter once you hold a line in LAS you can expect a decent schedule and plenty of time at home compared to your 91/135 job. Very quickly you will find that the commute will chip away at the time you will be able to be home and there will be plenty of nights you get delayed on the last day of your trip and you will be stuck in Vegas. As someone who has both lived in based, commuted and is a SoCal cheerleader; I plan to move to Vegas in the near future.

All good points, and I’ll add one more item for those commuting to reserve guys. The “call me first” option is a great thing in those scenarios. As a commuter who is barely off reserve I enjoyed that option. YMMV I’m sure, but I’ve had good luck.

GP

And those living in base I’m sure thank you for your call me first selection. Be sure to preference all red eye flying trips.

Thank you very much for your reply (and to everyone else as well). This is exactly the feedback I wanted to hear and it seems manageable. I may also relocate to LAS in the future but need to maintain my home in SoCal for now as the wife’s income is making this feasible.

Thanks again to everyone for all the thoughtful replies. It’s much appreciated.

Well you seem like I good personality so I hope you join the group. Cheers

No problem. Glad it cleared up some questions. Feel free to PM me in the future if you have any other questions.

FWIW- I flew 135 charter for 2 years before jumping over to a 121 regional. I was commuting LAX-ORD on reserve at the time. I distinctly remember telling myself that even then I was happy because that QOL had far exceeded the jet charter job. I think initially you will be very happy with the change, even if you are doing the LAX-LAS commute.