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Spirit health insurance cost
So it’s open enrollment time and as per our CBA our premiums are going up 6.7%. I’m guessing this 6.7% is compounding ever year...that seems like our insurance can get pretty expensive soon. My question to you all is this industry standard or not? Not sure what our last CBA was since I wasn’t around for the last one. But just seems like 6.7% increase ever year is a lot...maybe it’s something we had to give up at the bargaining table.
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Originally Posted by Halon1211
(Post 2691604)
So it’s open enrollment time and as per our CBA our premiums are going up 6.7%. I’m guessing this 6.7% is compounding ever year...that seems like our insurance can get pretty expensive soon. My question to you all is this industry standard or not? Not sure what our last CBA was since I wasn’t around for the last one. But just seems like 6.7% increase ever year is a lot...maybe it’s something we had to give up at the bargaining table.
Health insurance is getting expensive. For those with spouses, ask them about their work health insurance and the increases offered at their work. I know my wife's company has not only increased premiums YoY but have cut benefits too. Bottom line is I imagine all airlines are increasing premiums with the amount allowed within the contract; I cant imagine non union occupations and Spirit pilots are the only ones seeing premium increase while other union shops are seeing smaller increases. Not to sound like the contrarian to popular forum complaining, but I happy to have a reasonable cap on increases for our benefits while still maintaining the same benefits, and not seeing a reduction in benefits with an increase in premiums. Health Care is a mess in this country, no matter what side you're on, and having dependable, collectively bargained insurance, with controlled premium increases, is the best I can really hope for in this mess. Next CBA cycle we can poll the pilots and see where we stand with the 6.7% increase. I know we had to fight hard this cycle with the threat of the excise tax ever coming to a reality and not delayed for another year. |
Originally Posted by Ducttape
(Post 2691615)
It increased 6.5% for 2018, and im sure it did the years prior. And I expect it to raise the same for the years to come. It is the state of health insurance for the time we are in.
Health insurance is getting expensive. For those with spouses, ask them about their work health insurance and the increases offered at their work. I know my wife's company has not only increased premiums YoY but have cut benefits too. Bottom line is I imagine all airlines are increasing premiums with the amount allowed within the contract; I cant imagine non union occupations and Spirit pilots are the only ones seeing premium increase while other union shops are seeing smaller increases. Not to sound like the contrarian to popular forum complaining, but I happy to have a reasonable cap on increases for our benefits while still maintaining the same benefits, and not seeing a reduction in benefits with an increase in premiums. Health Care is a mess in this country, no matter what side you're on, and having dependable, collectively bargained insurance, with controlled premium increases, is the best I can really hope for in this mess. Next CBA cycle we can poll the pilots and see where we stand with the 6.7% increase. I know we had to fight hard this cycle with the threat of the excise tax ever coming to a reality and not delayed for another year. Normal folks saw double digit percent increase. |
I’m more upset we can’t choose plan B this year if not grandfather in...
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Originally Posted by GrumpyCaptain
(Post 2692020)
I’m more upset we can’t choose plan B this year if not grandfather in...
26.k . As of the effective date of this Agreement, POS-Plan B will not accept new entrants except that existing POS-Plan B participants as of the effective date of this Agreement who choose to leave the plan may elect to return to the plan. |
Yes I’m fully aware of this language in our concessionary contract.
Hence my comment, I’m bummed that many in our pilot group cannot choose plane B. One of the many paper cuts that 70% voted yes for. |
I’d like to show the comparison between plan B and the diamond HRA plan. With a flexible spending account added to the diamond plan I don’t see a scenario that makes plan B better, except if you were on some really expensive meds that are not generic.
Plan B: Family cost $9654.96 out of checks Family Deductible $750 Out of pocket max $3000 $11 copay per doc visit, 0% coinsurance Diamond: Family cost $4227.60 out of checks Family deductible $4500 max out of pocket $7500 $3000 HRA fund paid by company No copay but 10% coinsurance up to out of pocket max The diamond plan saves a family $5427.36 per year over plan B. Even with a medical nightmare year where you get 100k bills the diamond costs less. In this scenario Diamond total costs $8727.60 (with up to $2700 of that in a pre tax FSA) vs plan B at $12654.96 |
Originally Posted by GrumpyCaptain
(Post 2692112)
Yes I’m fully aware of this language in our concessionary contract.
Hence my comment, I’m bummed that many in our pilot group cannot choose plane B. One of the many paper cuts that 70% voted yes for. If you liked Plan B, I assume you had it, and still have it. Newhire pilots cant get it, but they never had it, so they never lost it. Those of us that could have had it, did not want it, and did not get it prior to the contract. |
Why do so many think the B plan is so great? Diamond is cheaper no matter how you slice it unless you or someone in your family is on some super expensive medications.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
^^^^
Math is hard for some. To the OP: Btw expressjet had a 25/75 pilot/company share that could not change. If the cost of the plan went up 10% our premiums went up 10% but so did the company’s to keep the ratio intact. If the cost went down so did the preiums. We are at about 31/69 on the diamond plan this year. Now if the total cost of the plan stays the same next year I don’t think anything stops Spirit from raising our share of the premiums by 7% essentially bringing down their share for a 33/67 split. (Our 31% increased by 7% = 33% of the total plan cost). I don’t know if the actual cost of the plan is increasing and Spirit is sharing in that increased cost keeping our 31/69 split in place. |
Republic went through the same transition to offering a low premium plan when I was there. The old plan reliably dropped in enrollment every year. They literally called it the "Legacy" plan. The only people who kept it were families with very unusual medical circumstances who couldn't take the hit to the max out of pocket terms. Everyone else didn't need or want it. If you had other plans besides the Diamond plan before this year you absolutely should look at the Diamond plan and do the math to decide if it's better for you.
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Originally Posted by Flightcap
(Post 2692572)
Republic went through the same transition to offering a low premium plan when I was there. The old plan reliably dropped in enrollment every year. They literally called it the "Legacy" plan. The only people who kept it were families with very unusual medical circumstances who couldn't take the hit to the max out of pocket terms. Everyone else didn't need or want it. If you had other plans besides the Diamond plan before this year you absolutely should look at the Diamond plan and do the math to decide if it's better for you.
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Originally Posted by Halon1211
(Post 2692575)
I like the monthly premiums on the diamond plan, however I feel like I could end up paying a lot everyone we go to an office visit. I believe it says 10% after your deductible is meet for the diamond plan. My daughter is going to the pediatrician a lot right now so I feel like all those bills can add up.
However, one of the interesting differences between the B plan and the Diamond w/HRA is the fact that you have to subtract $3000 from the out of pocket max in the Diamond plan. So a quick comparison says that if you are going to max out your benefits with both plans your total out of pocket expenditure will be $4,500 with the Diamond plan, $7,950 with the A plan, $3,598 with the EPO, and $3,000 with the B plan that we can't get anymore. That's only a difference of $1,500 for the lower premium to make up. I haven't yet done the math to figure out the total yearly cost with premiums included but the Diamond plan has more going for it than you see at first glance. |
Originally Posted by Halon1211
(Post 2692575)
I like the monthly premiums on the diamond plan, however I feel like I could end up paying a lot everyone we go to an office visit. I believe it says 10% after your deductible is meet for the diamond plan. My daughter is going to the pediatrician a lot right now so I feel like all those bills can add up.
If you have a healthy year and don’t go through the $3000 it rolls to the next year and you get another $3000 the next year which could cover your entire deductible and some or all of your 10% coinsurance. |
My daughter was born 5 months ago. I've gone to dermatologists, audiologists, at least 8 pediatrician visits and my wife had some complications as well.
we've used $250 from our HRA and about $270 out of pocket for prescriptions. That's it. |
Originally Posted by elmetal
(Post 2692724)
My daughter was born 5 months ago. I've gone to dermatologists, audiologists, at least 8 pediatrician visits and my wife had some complications as well.
we've used $250 from our HRA and about $270 out of pocket for prescriptions. That's it. Anyone have any comparisons between the A and diamond if you're going through something relatively high cost like a pregnancy and a surgery in the same year? I clearly understand the benefits of diamond if you're not expecting anything big in the following year but if you are expecting some high bills are you better to go with the A plan? Also, how come nobody talks about the EPO? I know it's one network but I've been using the UHC network for 10+ years and I've never gone to a doctor or specialist that doesn't take the insurance. Is there some other kind of pitfall there I'm not seeing? |
Originally Posted by RgrMurdock
(Post 2692775)
Anyone have any comparisons between the A and diamond if you're going through something relatively high cost like a pregnancy and a surgery in the same year? I clearly understand the benefits of diamond if you're not expecting anything big in the following year but if you are expecting some high bills are you better to go with the A plan?
Also, how come nobody talks about the EPO? I know it's one network but I've been using the UHC network for 10+ years and I've never gone to a doctor or specialist that doesn't take the insurance. Is there some other kind of pitfall there I'm not seeing? I can't say too much regarding things like surgeries and whatnot, but so far I am very very impressed with the Diamond plan |
Originally Posted by RgrMurdock
(Post 2692775)
Anyone have any comparisons between the A and diamond if you're going through something relatively high cost like a pregnancy and a surgery in the same year? I clearly understand the benefits of diamond if you're not expecting anything big in the following year but if you are expecting some high bills are you better to go with the A plan?
Also, how come nobody talks about the EPO? I know it's one network but I've been using the UHC network for 10+ years and I've never gone to a doctor or specialist that doesn't take the insurance. Is there some other kind of pitfall there I'm not seeing? FWIW we are going through the same family building process as well. (I could be looking at it completely wrong too) |
Originally Posted by RgrMurdock
(Post 2692775)
Anyone have any comparisons between the A and diamond if you're going through something relatively high cost like a pregnancy and a surgery in the same year? I clearly understand the benefits of diamond if you're not expecting anything big in the following year but if you are expecting some high bills are you better to go with the A plan?
Also, how come nobody talks about the EPO? I know it's one network but I've been using the UHC network for 10+ years and I've never gone to a doctor or specialist that doesn't take the insurance. Is there some other kind of pitfall there I'm not seeing? Email them and see if they can send you a copy |
Originally Posted by RgrMurdock
(Post 2692775)
Anyone have any comparisons between the A and diamond if you're going through something relatively high cost like a pregnancy and a surgery in the same year? I clearly understand the benefits of diamond if you're not expecting anything big in the following year but if you are expecting some high bills are you better to go with the A plan?
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Thanks for the feedback all. Anyone know how the diamond plans works if you also elect some FSA funds as well?
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Originally Posted by RgrMurdock
(Post 2692819)
Thanks for the feedback all. Anyone know how the diamond plans works if you also elect some FSA funds as well?
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Originally Posted by Gjn290
(Post 2692838)
You have to deplete the HRA before you can spend the funds you put in your FSA.
Example: Prescriptions cannot go on HRA. So you can use the FSA even though you still have thousands in the HRA. |
I had to go back and find this (its from May) but the math is still (about) the same. For me I will never go off the POS B until the force me.
Originally Posted by PrattFan
(Post 2603771)
Seriously...you don’t think I’ve run the numbers...every year? I shouldn’t have to explain it, but I will so you guys will stop making your claims.
It’s not that hard actually, prescription drugs. B plan Per paycheck premiums $353.85 x 24= $8,492.40 + $750 deductible= $9,242.40 max health care costs annually (100% pre tax money with FSA covering the deductible). Diamond plan Per paycheck premiums $154.94 x 24= $3,718.56 + $7,000 max out of pocket= $10,718.56 max health care costs annually. In reality, it would effectively be $12,168.56 since only $6,368.56 (premiums + 2018 FSA limit of $2,650) of total would be with pre-tax money, the remaining $4,350 after tax money would require $5,800 in earnings at the 25% tax bracket. Here’s the part you guys miss. The $3,000/year company funded account can not be used on prescription drugs. The Diamond plan non-formulary brand prescription drugs (tier 4 drugs) have a 50% copay (min $50/no max) until you reach your max out of pocket. Even brand drugs are 25% copay (min $25/max $300). When you have a loved one who has a prescription drug need anywhere from $5,000-$15,000 monthly, you could easily reach the max out of pocket ($7,000) in February, all self funded, and haven’t seen a doctor or been to a hospital yet. Meanwhile, the company’s money sits unused because the out of pocket max was reached, and the plan pays the rest. So what, it rolls over, you say? Sure, same thing happens next year, and the next year, and the next. You guys think in terms of healthy vs. catastrophic. High costs don’t just come from catastrophic events, they also come from expensive drugs associated with chronic illnesses. I’m not alone, I know of pilots and/or their loved ones with MS, cancer, genetic diseases, etc. who are in the same boat on prescription drug costs that make the Diamond plan cost prohibitive. What’s sad, it’s allowable for Spirit’s money to cover drugs, they choose not to allow it. R&I is skeptical that will ever change, but should it, I’ll be on the Diamond plan right along with you. Although, if you know you’ll hit the max out of pocket I’d argue the cost differences would be negligible. If you are curious what was wrong in the union’s cost analysis? They showed the annual cost for the B plan including the $3,000 max out of pocket. Where that’s misleading, the plan pays 100% after the $250/$750 deductible is met, except for mental healthcare. So unless you have mental healthcare needs, it’s really just the premiums plus the deductible annually, as I showed above, which is $2,250 less than what the union analysis reflected. This is all a moot point, the B plan is closed to new entrants. So you guys get what you believed to be true, the Diamond plan is best for everybody. Well, except those of us that were on it. ;) |
Originally Posted by flyingpuma1
(Post 2692865)
I had to go back and find this (its from May) but the math is still (about) the same. For me I will never go off the POS B until the force me.
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Originally Posted by Flightcap
(Post 2692993)
Interesting that this guy says the out of pocket max only applies to mental healthcare. Is that accurate?
Where the $1000/$3000 max out of pocket does come into play for non-mental healthcare costs, when you add up all your costs, deductible, office copays, emergency room copays and Rx copays, if those all add up to $1000 for one family member or $3000 for the family, in theory you should pay nothing for the remainder of the year. No more copays for office visits or Rx. I say in theory because I’ve never hit it, but have come close to the $1000 individual in various years. I’ll reiterate, the Diamond plan is a great plan that most should be on. There are some very unique situations, like mine, that the plan B is better and I hope the others like me were on it when we signed the new CBA. For new people, or those who come into new situations that would have benefited from the plan B, it’s unfortunate you can’t get in it. At the end of the day the costs between the 2 plans is anywhere from $1200-$1700 different (excluding mental health related issues) and that number is getting smaller every year as the annual premium increases have a larger effect on the plan B’s higher premiums than on the lower premiums of the Diamond plan. I haven’t done the math on the out years, but eventually the plan B will become obsolete in nearly all situations, barring a very rare situation of course. |
Originally Posted by PrattFan
(Post 2693047)
It’s accurate, but I’ll clarify my previous language a little. The plan pays 100% after the deductible is met, except for mental healthcare, that pays 90% after the deductible, assuming in-network. So while the plan language doesn’t say the max out of pocket doesn’t apply to non-mental healthcare, since they are paying 100% for in-network after the deductible that’s how it works out. So in a catastrophic year you wouldn’t need to meet the $1000/$3000 to get 100% paid by the insurance, rather just the $250/$750 deductibles.
Where the $1000/$3000 max out of pocket does come into play for non-mental healthcare costs, when you add up all your costs, deductible, office copays, emergency room copays and Rx copays, if those all add up to $1000 for one family member or $3000 for the family, in theory you should pay nothing for the remainder of the year. No more copays for office visits or Rx. I say in theory because I’ve never hit it, but have come close to the $1000 individual in various years. I’ll reiterate, the Diamond plan is a great plan that most should be on. There are some very unique situations, like mine, that the plan B is better and I hope the others like me were on it when we signed the new CBA. For new people, or those who come into new situations that would have benefited from the plan B, it’s unfortunate you can’t get in it. At the end of the day the costs between the 2 plans is anywhere from $1200-$1700 different (excluding mental health related issues) and that number is getting smaller every year as the annual premium increases have a larger effect on the plan B’s higher premiums than on the lower premiums of the Diamond plan. I haven’t done the math on the out years, but eventually the plan B will become obsolete in nearly all situations, barring a very rare situation of course. |
Originally Posted by flyingpuma1
(Post 2692865)
I had to go back and find this (its from May) but the math is still (about) the same. For me I will never go off the POS B until the force me.
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I love the diamond plus. $18/paycheck and $1000 HRA company contribute every year. And it rolls over. Best medical insurance imo. Most I’d ever pay Out of pocket is $1500. (2500-1000 free HRA). So if I don’t use much. It’ll roll over. Already have several thousand. So I’m free. I could have millions in medical bills and not pay a penny :D
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Originally Posted by dfwflyboy
(Post 2695232)
I love the diamond plus. $18/paycheck and $1000 HRA company contribute every year. And it rolls over. Best medical insurance imo. Most I’d ever pay Out of pocket is $1500. (2500-1000 free HRA). So if I don’t use much. It’ll roll over. Already have several thousand. So I’m free. I could have millions in medical bills and not pay a penny :D
And then you get married and see how much women go to the doctor. And then you have a kid and see how often they go too. Haha. Joking. I love the diamond and saved enough company contributions, in my single years, to pay for the rest of the family |
Originally Posted by elmetal
(Post 2692844)
Not quite. You have to deplete the HRA funds before you can use FSA funds only for expenses where the HRA is allowed.
Example: Prescriptions cannot go on HRA. So you can use the FSA even though you still have thousands in the HRA. |
Originally Posted by YourMom
(Post 2692809)
The post above by airsense shows the worst case scenario year.
And also your first year on the diamond being the worst year. One the HRA rolls over a couple times you’re in even better shape with it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by full of luv
(Post 2695966)
That would make sense because isn't it an IRS/Law provision that an FSA gets taken if not spent down to like $500 each year? Not sure who gets to keep the money though, the IRS or the company....
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Originally Posted by full of luv
(Post 2695966)
That would make sense because isn't it an IRS/Law provision that an FSA gets taken if not spent down to like $500 each year? Not sure who gets to keep the money though, the IRS or the company....
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Originally Posted by YourMom
(Post 2696132)
Use it or lose it, any amount. You can use some at drugs.com or theoretically buy a bunch of blood pressure machines and resell them. Anyways the amount you lose goes to the insurance company, back to "the plan".
Here's what the IRS allows, but apparently the company can determine if they want to allow it as well: $500 Rollover This FSA regulation gives account holders the ability to "roll over" up to $500 in to the next plan year's account to prevent a large portion of funds from being forfeited. The FSA plan sponsor can elect to allow less than $500 to be rolled over, but the same rollover limit must apply to all participants under the current FSA plan rules. The $500 rollover does not count toward the following year's maximum election amount ($2,600 for 2017), so account holders could feasibly roll over $500 of last year's funds on top of the full election amount of $2,600 for 2017, which would give them $3,100 available for reimbursement for healthcare expenses that year. |
Originally Posted by Ducttape
(Post 2695411)
And then you get married and see how much women go to the doctor.
And then you have a kid and see how often they go too. Haha. Joking. I love the diamond and saved enough company contributions, in my single years, to pay for the rest of the family |
Open enrollment is up again...
Does anyone use the Gold HSA? or does everyone use the Diamond HRA? |
Originally Posted by bruhaha
(Post 3312399)
Open enrollment is up again...
Does anyone use the Gold HSA? or does everyone use the Diamond HRA? |
I am on the Diamond right now, and have a bit stashed up... but if I ever left Spirit, all of that goes poof. - it's not mine to begin with.
With the HSA, i can take that with me if I ever left Spirit or if i medical out0000. Do you do your own contribution in addition to what Spirit contributes? and is your contribution limited by Spirit's contribution? in other words can you contribute $7300 to the HSA if Spirit contributes $2000 - or are you limited to $5300 + Spirit's $2000? And then you play investment broker with the HSA balance above $2000? |
Originally Posted by bruhaha
(Post 3312424)
I am on the Diamond right now, and have a bit stashed up... but if I ever left Spirit, all of that goes poof. - it's not mine to begin with.
With the HSA, i can take that with me if I ever left Spirit or if i medical out0000. Do you do your own contribution in addition to what Spirit contributes? and is your contribution limited by Spirit's contribution? in other words can you contribute $7300 to the HSA if Spirit contributes $2000 - or are you limited to $5300 + Spirit's $2000? And then you play investment broker with the HSA balance above $2000? |
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