Happy signing day
 

Enjoy an extra couple bucks tomorrow and keeping up with inflation for now.

I wondered who it would be....
At least in my top 3 guesses....

Still many dollars behind the rest...
without redeye incentives..
no profit sharing..
poor retirement compared to the rest..
12 months and no PBS so crappy rigs..
a sloped pay scale..AGAIN.
But hey, folks are super happy about the growth! Oh wait...
nope...

Happy signing day!

Hooray!!! We aren't last, but close!

Will those extra dollars go into effect tomorrow or on the 2nd like last year???

Was I on your top 3 list?

Sad thing is inflation is actually higher than what the CPI says it is. They leave out some important stuff. So I would even say we are loosing to inflation even including our pay raise.

Actually I think it’s the 2nd

You’re right and they changed the calculation last year I think. It’s close enough to call it even for now though

Sad and all true.

Most of the things the 70% of us signed were to get us in the ballpark, the next contract will definitely put us way up there but hey it’s all what you make of it. Keep your finances in order, keep a positive attitude and the order book will fulfill its self. However, make sure if you’re not happy here you apply elsewhere simple as 123. And hope for a call and they get out of the way and allow someone else to progress UP the list who really wants to be here. Of course we all want to see $285-325 an hour, 15 direct percent into our 401(k), and profit-sharing which is industry standard. But we have to remember where we are in the lineup and they did ask for it and unfortunately it didn’t happen. Sux. But it’s where we are. I travel a lot outside of the USA and I realize I am .00001% of the world so I am grateful for this job and it’s only going to get better. We have a fantastic pilot group. I feel we deserve above and beyond but it’s just the nature of the business keep tight as a group on and we will get there eventually. Fly safe that way the contract.

I would say it didn't happen because we (70%) didn't care. If we (as a group) had actually wanted those things it could have been voted down and we could have tried again.

I'm happy with what we achieved in the contract. When I hired on 185 was the top and I still took the job. Not dropping reserve days besides MFV post PBS sucks but I'll live with it. Being number 16000 at Delta or anywhere else does not appeal to me at this point. Maybe we can improve reserve flexibility on the next contract.

Agreed...going from $185 to $259 + override was a huge jump. It’s not legacy pay obviously, but it was a quantum leap from where we were. Rome wasn’t built in a day as the cliché goes, but the growth opportunity and not being at the bottom of a legacy list has its advantages long term.

Is there a difference between being number 16000 at a legacy and number 2200 at spirit? Maybe my math ain’t good but that seniority spends the same I reckon.

I assume you're talking about the post above. He's not a new hire, he's probably half way up the list or higher and saying, to start over at the bottom is not appealing to him.

Exactly. A CA here starting over at Delta would take 6 years just to break even, assuming 3 year upgrade on the 717 in New York. Yes a 16000 seniority number spends the same as a 2200 number, but for growth it is much easier to double the 2200 number. There are other factors to consider besides wages when choosing a company like retirement numbers, personality cultures, base locations, work rules. With a new airplane order a spirit 2200 number could easier rise up the list faster than a 16000 number at Delta.

Hell even as a quasi-senior FO I'm not looking to leave. To each their own, but I live in domicile in a place where I actually want to live (Florida), barely fly on reserve, pick up the occasional junior man on my off days which pays my rent easily, and I actually have time to work on my side hustle to supplement my retirement.
If I want to rent my place out on Airbnb for a month and just travel then I can totally do that. There are a lot of pilots out there intent on chasing the carrot in search for that different shade of brown grass on the other side, and to them I say be my guest.

I agree with most of what’s been said. Let’s just not use it as an excuse to be compensated lower. What we got was a nice win for us but not to much to be proud of. That aside, let all enjoy the extra couple of bucks we got yesterday.

Truth!


.........

We had good reserve flexibility. I understand the issue with checker boarding but we gave up too much. We should have found a much better middle ground instead of just screwing reserves. When PBS is fully implemented, reserves will lose essentially any ability to change their schedule outside what they can bid.

Trading days can't be that hard. I know one might actually have to talk to other people on reserve, but as long as the rules aren't too restrictive you can still get what you want. If you have bases with reserve numbers in the single digits that is way more challenging, but still not impossible. Losing straight drop does suck, though (really wish we had that at my current gig).

If you trade reserve days with another pilot do you keep your orignal RAP or have to take (and be legal for) theirs on the day(s) you swap?

Agree we shouldn’t have to “get back” flexibility, we willingly gave that away. When I first started at the airlines almost 20 years ago I had a ca tell me “never give up work rules, pay comes and goes but work rules once gone are impossible to get back.”


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True. ALPA can't take 2% of work rules though......

What's the story behind not allowing reserves to pick-up open time?

Well, your question answers itself. They can’t do it. Couldn’t in C2010, still can’t in C2018....

If reserves were allowed to pick up open time on their days off, it could make them illegal to work on their days on, that would lead to more premium flying, assuming the company staffs correctly.

just a guess but they are worried about reserves picking up ot on off days and potentially generating duty time issues when they are on reserve. True, line holders could have the same problem, but reserve assignments are more unpredictable.

First rule of negotiating!

MEC/NC does not care about RES, they are senior enough to avoid it.
Their view is the same as Bendo's: RES is not supposed to be a choice.
We will NEVER get RES drops or any of our QOL we willingly gave up, enjoy your 1/6 Retro!
March 2018 was an epic fail:
NC negotiating while on a TRO, where was ALPA national?
They should have been relieved of their duties based on that alone!
Negotiating scared and tired, gets to be too much for anyone.
I don't blame the NC, they did their best, but were outclassed.
They walked out of the deal in November 2017, when Bendo threw the PBS MOU the last minute.
What changed between then and March? We voted on that same proposal+PBS!
Anyone that has some time in this industry knows that the vote on the first offer is ALWAYS NO!
Subsequent offer will no doubt be an improvement.
Even timing was terrible. Who signs in March?
Wait till high season, starting June to Sept and hit them when it hurts.

Lessons learned, hopefully!

This person gets it!!
Well said.

I think we fell a bit short on CBA 2018.

However, I don’t think it’s acurate to say the NC doesn’t care about rsv. I think rsv was just one part of a broader scheduling section and they got the best deal they thought they could to get with the most improvements for the largest percentage of the group. This is coming from someone that often bids rsv on purpose. I will now have to bid lines more often forcing a Junior lineholder back to rsv involuntarily. Now both of us don’t get what we want. But I don’t think the NC doesn’t care about rsv.

What changed between November and March?

First and most importantly: spirit wanted to keep all 401k overages. In the actual CBA if you exceed the combined personal and company IRS limits to your 401k you get the exceedence paid to you. So instead of spirit taking 11-15% of your compensation after the limit is reached you now get to keep it per industry standard. That’s a very big deal and that one item alone was worth walking out on in November.

Second: own occupation LTD. Our LTD is not the gold standard but compared to what the company offered in November it’s leaps and bounds ahead. We still have offsets for other income earned on LTD and we still have no retirement contribution on LTD. Those two items are must haves next time around.

I think the contract came up short on several levels most importantly scope but to say nothing changed between November and March and that the NC doesn’t care about rsv sounds a bit ignorant.

Does Spirit Airlines pay the company portion of the pilot's health insurance coverage while the pilot is out on LTD? Thanks.

For 60 months

And the reason you’re not as upset about reserves is because you bid it voluntarily. I have lived in reserve/relief line (depending on the month) for the last two years with not much end in sight given the 4 a month upgrades. Loss of reserve drop is a terrible qol hit for me.



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Best post on here, spot on.


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Don’t kid yourself, I’m pretty ****ed about our rsv section. I just don’t think the NC didn’t care about rsv qol. And while I do have the option to bid off of it I will probably continue to bid it most months. I also never once checkerboarded. The loss of drop was huge because I prefer to use the majority of my vacation as float. Guess what float is? It’s a drop transaction.

It’s fine to be angry but that post is factually incorrect.

Happy signing day
 

What part of the post is incorrect? I see somethings that are opinions but I happen to agree with them.


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You can reference post #30 on page 3.

A couple huge things changed between November and March. That’s fact. We didn’t just go back and settle on the company’s last offer.

Things did change for sure, but I still feel like we did settle


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