Line construction?
 

Who makes these disgusting uncommutable lines and trips? What part does the company do and what part, if any, is the union responsible for? It will all change soon with PBS but I'm just curious who I should hate for the time being.

I’d hate to break it to you if you think it’s going to change with pbs...what is uncommutable are the pairings not the lines themselves..it’s the same pairings going into the pbs system, just the distribution of the pairings will be done by pbs...

Are they under an requirement to make commutable lines? Honest question. My guess would be not particularly.

Sadly, they are probably not required to make any commutable pairings. Must have been too many other priorities when negotiating like giving away transition conflict.

I'm sure this is true.

Yeah but the new rigs will help with this problem. Trips will either be commutable and lower credit or uncommutable and higher credit meaning you will have do work less days to credit the same. An uncommutable 4 day under the new rigs should pay at least 24-25 hours so you’d only need to do 3 of them which reduces the sting of commuting on days off a bit. Also with PBS you’ll be able to customize your line to your needs (assuming you have the seniority to hold it) which usually works out better for commuters than pre-built lines with half commutable trips that you have to go try and fix in IOT/DOT. I’m sitting about 50% and the lines I was getting with the PBS mock bids far exceed anything I’ve ever gotten here with traditional line bidding.

Exactly.

Dot, dot, dot.

Entitled much?

Does wanting one or two commutable lines out of near 100 make me entitled? If so, I guess I am. I bet you're a blast to fly with on a 4 day.

I am entitled to use the ignore feature, as are you.

Sounds like you have anger issues. I think you are the one that’s a “blast” to fly with.


Let me ask a question. Is it on our contract that they have to do that??? If not, go pound sand!!!

I demand that the company make a line where every trip only has a 11AM show time so I can sleep in. I demand that I only fly one leg a day and I demand that every layover is next to a beach in some tropical location.

This is ridiculous. I hope you’re trolling. It’s completely reasonable to want to be able to bid commutable lines. The good news is that this should be achievable to most with PBS and if not the new rigs should help alleviate the pain.

and while that would be totally awesome, expecting to be able to commute is somewhat realistic.

I never heard anyone demand commuter lines during last contract negotiations. Why is this person just now complaining?

Would you think I’m ridiculous for demanding the company have a CMH base so my sweet a** doesn’t have to commute.

The company isn’t going to go out of its way to build commuter lines if they aren’t contractually obligated too. Just like they arnt going to open a CMH base because they arnt obligated to.

What would be really cool is if we have commuter lines like UPS has. UPS commuter lines are you are essentially home based and they DH you to what ever city they need you and fly you home when you are done. Now that is something that I would vote yes for in a contract!

Beech Nut,

The silent majority agrees with your observations.

Unfortunately, many posters here think "PBS rigs" will magically improve things. The company will find a way around that if (...and it's a big IF at this time...) the company and union implement PBS.

Your only mistake is this: You brought up a subject that actually affects our pay and QOL. How dare you! ;)

Had you brought up Karbon jackets instead, this thread would be 10 pages by now. The spirit group has no patience for things that actually affect their pocketbooks.

Reality.

I'll no longer be feeding the troll Halon as I have him on ignore. I'd advise everyone to do the same. Nothing scares and brings out the ugly side of internet trolls more than being ignored. Their extreme positions and statements are a sad pathetic cry for attention.

"I hope the company makes the trips/lines as miserable as possible since it doesn't say in the contract they have to make any commutable". Yeah, everyone loves a trip that starts at 6 am and ends on day four at 11 PM worth 18 hours.

Your a tool. You haven’t even made one attempt to rebuttal anything I said.

So beech nut thinks I’m a troll because I’m calling him out on him crying that there aren’t commuterlines even though nobody seemed to care about that until now.

Nothing “magical” about it. The new rigs will improve QOL.

You could be right...

Or, perhaps...some of us are less enthusiastic because trip averaging is still in place and the long layover trigger moves from 22 to 24 hours.

You could see 10 hour 3 days, or 20 hour 4-days....start late enough on day 1, and you could see 15 hour 4 days. :eek:

And, they have an optimizer set to their specs, not ours.

Yeah but the issue at hand is commutability. All those trips that you mention will be very commutable. My point was that with the new rigs trips will either be commutable or very high credit as opposed to right now where you see low credit uncommutable trips.

Line construction?
 

Show me an example of a 3 day worth 10 hours, I’m honestly curious how your math works to get this. I’m assuming you think you’ll have two duty periods and the TAFB will be less than 35 hours and it won’t have a “long overnight”. But any 3 day with only two duty periods should have a long overnight in there unless you end at like 2 am on the 3rd day, then it’s basically a late finishing 2 day and the later it finishes the more the 3.5 rig starts adding up. As for a 15 hour 4 day. That means your TAFB would have to be less than 52.5 hours and have 3 or less duty periods which would obviously add a long overnight into the equation. I can’t make the math work but I’m genuinely curious to see how you’re getting these numbers.


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10 hr 3 day trip - Very late pm show (2200-2359) for a red eye, early am finish (0700-0900) on day 3 (2 duty periods and one long layover but less than 24 hours).

16 hour 4 day (15 hour 4 day would be nearly impossible to build) - Very late pm show (2300-2359), early am finish (before 0700 am) on day 4 (3 duty periods and one long layover but less than 24 hours).

Not great trips but again the point is that at least they are very commutable. These will most likely go to junior line holding commuters with PBS. Less days off due to inefficiencies but 100% commutable. Most likely better than what junior line holders are currently getting with line bidding especially considering commutability.

LAS, 3 Day TAFB 33 hours, pay 10 hrs
11pm red-eye day 1
23 hours rest
Early morning back to base ETA 8AM
Currently would pay 13:30 (EWR turns)

15 hour 4 day would more likely be at least 16 hr because of the new rigs:
11 pm red-eye
20 hr rest
Early east coast turn (BOS-BWI-BOS)
15 hour rest
Early return to base arrive 7am
TAFB 56 hrs, pay 16 hrs

Personally would bid the 4 days, like starting late on day1.

Fair enough, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say they are going to be outliers and garbage trips. But you’re correct. With PBS you will be able to avoid or request these types of extremely commutable trips.




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I type too slow.

Line construction?
 

What kind of redeye are you doing where you can have 20 hours rest and do an early morning turn. Let’s say Vegas to Boston or LA to FLL are some of our longer ones. It’s blocked at what, 5 hours? You get in at 5 or 6 am. Add 20 hours to 6 am and it’s 2 am. I mean you guys are right. On paper you can make it work. But realistically with our schedule it doesn’t work.


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Line construction?
 

Deleted.... fat fingers

You are right, math doesn’t work on that one, I thought I remembered a trip like that....

If they changed the schedules they could build something like this:

11pm report LAS - BOS 11:45pm - 7:45am
22 hour overnight
5:45am report for BOS - LAS 6:30 - 9am

TAFB is 34 hours.



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Looks like a 20 hour 3 day to me after it sits in open time until it is x/y listed for premium pay.

We have those to EWR, currently paying 13:30, wonder what will happen after new rigs.

At Jetblue pre-contract, the Airbus open-time was always flooded with 10hr/3 days. Company built as many as they could. They usually went to reserves, unless you’re a lineholder that wants to credit 77 hours with 12 days off, but easy flying. Those trips encompassed probably about 50% of the open time for the Airbus in BOS and JFK. Spirit’s route structure is different so maybe it won’t be a big issue.

Unless you're based in LAS....then it will be. I was awarded those **** 3day back to back during mock bid. 6 days worth 20 hours...

A lot of people aren't participating in the mock bids. I'd guess you'll need to get in the top 30% and life will be good under PBS.

I guess we’ll see. I can’t imagine how it will be worse than the 14 day off 74 hour credit half commutable garbage lines I’m getting now at 50% seniority.

I haven’t heard anything about low participation. You have a source?

What are you considering low? 93% participated in my seat and base.

Cool, I don't no many Captains that spent much time doing the Bogus Bids. Not to burst your bubble of hope but you know it was BOGUS data loaded? The trips weren't real relative to our real system time table. Some trips were real but a lot of what you "bid" on was FAKE data loaded. Clearly very few went and checked to see if those trips actually were in our time table. I was given trips I'd love to have. Only problem we didn't fly the city pairs I was awarded at those times. It's a complete waste of time if you actually think you're getting anything near what you "bid" on. I guess we'll get to live the bidding train wreck very soon.

No bubble bursted, thanks for the info. I let my default run on the last to see what it might net, so no real effort. We'll see what June brings.