A couple of weeks off isn’t going to send a message! 6 months or being fired for stealing will. The company manual has no leniency for dishonesty!

Personally I don't care.

It's not stealing. The bot guys get the cheese because they work harder at it than you do. Nothing is stopping the rest of you from learning to code or making a purchase. It's not immoral any more than letting your wife pick up a trip or allowing your browser to save your password is immoral.

"Use of any unattended or automated systems to access, bid or obtain data within FLICA is specifically prohibited. Violation of these policies may result in, but is not limited to, the revocation of FLICA access."

It is against the rules, though.

I guess we know at least one of the bot scammers now.

I'd agree with the wife bidding, but saving you're password on your browser? That's a stretch.

Just follow the rules, it's not hard.

Your taking the position that if you can do something, it is outright ok to do. If this is the moral compass you use for your life, it says a lot about you.

what a disgrace

Does this mean apps like FC View and APDL are prohibited?

The key word is “unattended”. FC View isn’t going to do anything unless you access it yourself.

"unattended or automated".

It’s one and the same. No bots. Flica doesn’t give a rip about apps that allow you to quickly see your schedule.

Automated. You’re a pilot and cant understand that “automated” refers to being automatic, not needing human interaction? We have auto pilot...as in you give it an order and it carries it out, without intervention from the pilot.

Stop trying to justify your unethical ways.

Access to Sabre API + VPN is goldmine.

I do not think company cares if open time picked up in 5 min or 5 millisecond with bot. As long as pick up happens. So NK do not care, and ALPA can not stop.

Yoda? Is that you?

Well if you want to cheat your fellow pilots and risk losing a multi million dollar career, that's on you buddy.

Is this better or worse than pilots paying PBS trainers to submit bids for them?


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A person can’t bid, drop or pickup in micro seconds. And a person doesn’t have 24 hour unwavering vigil for opportunities. That’s the crux of it.

By far worse. The one is using a consultant to legitimately optimize what they can legitimately hold. The other is circumventing a first-come-first-serve system.

Both seem a bit shady to me.


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I guess the paid bidding doesn't look that much different to me than asking a PBS guru for advice. Unless the Navblue TOS forbid allowing a third party to access your account. Which I wouldn't know because like every human being I check the box and move on with my life. :)

That’s like saying if two athletes are in competition with each other, the one paying a personal trainer to help them workout more efficiently is cheating just as much as the one using anabolic steroids.

People will try to justify their decisions no matter what, even trying to conflate things that aren’t even in the realm of being equal.

PBS bidding help and bots aren’t even close to being the same. A more accurate comparison would be Flica bots, compared to say a PBS program that allows the system to give you super seniority over everyone.

I’m not trying to justify using bots. I just think both things are a bit shady.
Hiring someone who helped create the rules to the game does give an unfair advantage. Someone who uses that level of inside knowledge (admittedly not secret knowledge) could get a schedule that their seniority might not otherwise afford.
I’d be curious to know if navblue prohibits allowing a third party to access an account. Not curious enough to dig through all the terms and conditions though.



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Could be secret if they have insight to reserve stacks and coverage awards that are not public, for example.

Except it’s exactly what their seniority affords.

Pbs trainers and the pwg are two different things. Pbs trainers do not have access to admin parameters. That being said even if you did, all that changes from run to run and the solution is not figured until well after the bid is closed.

Happy bot day everyone!!

Noooo fake news.

I’m sure that one single denied trip I tried swapping for at 12:00:06 was only picked up by someone at 12:00:0000000000001 because they had their wife or kid bidding for them.

Dang, that’s pretty slow...my bot can do it at
12:00:00000000000000000000000000000001



But in all seriousness maybe file an NCC? I wonder if that would help get to the bottom of this?

I’m not going to point fingers as there’s no way to know the timing of the person who beat me to it.

Still, there’s a limit to human response..

Buuuuut figure out of the pilots in base, minus those on reserve, those flying at the time of DOT open, and those that just don’t care anymore. If someone else was in the waiting room like me, and exactly at the opening went “swap” and scrolled all the way down to the bottom of the list, picked the exact same flight, and hit “submit” in less time than the few seconds it took me to do it... well more power to him, trip is yours sir.

sadly ncc will do nothing to stop this. if it doesnt cost the company $ there will be no action taken against the BOTers

Maybe they didn’t have to hit swap, they hit “add”, saving a few key strokes. Sometimes that’s all it takes.

Look and see who gets these trips, you’ll notice a trend. It really is simple to see the same people over and over