If I could go back in time I would have bypassed upgrading too, I upgraded prior to the new contract when everyone was adamant there would be no pbs (it was a “non starter”). So I upgraded and a few months later out comes the new contract with pbs. Honestly it’s been pretty bad on reserve with pbs and with virtually no hiring or upgrading for almost the last two years it’s been almost impossible to get off reserve. Thankfully I’m off reserve now that we have started upgrading again but I don’t blame anyone for bypassing.



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Pardon my ignorance, I’m new to this world. What does 54% RS to 63% RS mean? Thanks.

To make it simple, just use 100 pilots. Right now pilots 54-62 said, I don’t want to upgrade right now. So number 63 is upgrading while those 10 or so stay in the right seat waiting until they are closer to holding a line as captain to skip the reserve QOL issues.

That’s not mathematically correct and way over simplified

Sorry, too lazy to type out "Relative Seniority", 63% meant most junior captain was 1550(?) out of 2450.

The reason the "abuse" happened was because of poor pay. And the abuse you refuse is called dropping days. So folks would rather drop and not get paid instead of going to work. The fix is a pay increase not getting rid of dropping days. Other option should be picking up open time while on reserve but that would interfere with more senior line holders. Don't buy what the union sold on the so called abuse. They were the ones who pointed out how to checker board because the senior guys did when they were on reserve! We were sold out and told Reserve was a "Country Club".

Revisionist history right there, with the pilots as the victims.

Guys checkerboarded for various reasons and many did it to only have single day reserve RAPs with early release on each day. They wouldn’t be used and then waited for 200% calls on their days off because with our 29/7 language, it was hard to find pilots who could take a 4 day on their days off. Reserve pilots could because they weren’t being used with the checker boarding drops.

So the reserve guy takes the 200% trip, pays it forward to the next group of RAPs by dropping a few days and take a little credit hit, so they can take another 200% call on their next stretch of days off.

It was 100% contractual but let’s not act like guys we’re dropping only because of the pay. Because that logic doesn’t hold up...

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. As a line holder I dropped all the time knowing they would call. You forget about the red/green issue and seniority drop open time. It totally favored the señor guys. When I dropped it forced it to go red. When I say I it should be we dropped and shifted the days red. Then I could sit and wait knowing they didn't have coverage. The reserve guys had to fly and I waited for a DEAL! Wish it was just a drop and wait game for the reserve guys. If you dropped you didn't get paid because the system showed coverage for the system the company didn't get screwed. They never paid anyone who dropped. I did it and found other things to do. I wish you could just drop and wait for the phone call at 200%. It was only the front end of the month that popped red due to transition. The senior guys knew to drop everything for the first 8 days of the month. I don't know any new hires that were getting rich playing the game. It was Captains and senior FO's for sure! I always bid 12 days straight, 6 with 6 right behind it. They would drop and I'd wait and see if the phone rang. It didn't always ring. The reserve guys picking up trips on days off should happen if you want to help the company. Word is The Company has already offered %125 over 75 hrs and the union didn't respond!! If you don't know why then you're not paying attention.

Yeah, sure champ. I honestly have zero idea what you’re even trying to say. I know many guys who did exactly what I said happened. But you keep up with your “%125” and your conspiracies.

Hi all, I’m looking to get on with Spirit and be based close to home in south Florida. I realize it’s a moving target but what’s the upgrade outlook for someone starting class this summer? 3 years and increasing...or falling? Do your aircraft deliveries appear to be on track or are they forecasted to slow? Thanks.

They have already announced a slow down in deliveries. Airbus can’t keep up. Depends who you ask, but upgrade is somewhere around the 2.5 to 3.5 mark (base dependent of course).


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I agree, your basically saying checkerboarding would've stopped if pay was simply increased...…...riiiiiiight!!

This ^^^^^

We don’t know how much the production problems will affects us at this point. If they go well into 2021 like Christie said, upgrade would be at the 3.5 to 4 yr mark for someone hired today. This is just my own math. Could be way off depending on a number of factors. Latest vacancy bid bulletin went down to 28 upgrades. It might be our first indication of the adjusted growth rate for this year (or could be something else).
If you want to see the silver lining, we’ll still get those airplanes at some point, and either the company will accept the slower growth rate, or try to catch up whenever Airbus can increase deliveries. If it’s the later, then upgrade time will come back down to under 3 years.

company is still actively shopping on the used market as well.

Most recent upgrade is low 1600’s. I believe that’s under 3 years


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Spoke with an upgrade heading to FLL on mid February - 2Yrs 8mos. Upgrading in FLL base

New hire brief a few weeks ago we were told to expect 15 new planes this year and 33 new planes in 2021. We were told the airplanes that were supposed to come in 2020 that slid into 2021 should be delivered early in the year. The 100 (with 50 more options) will start delivery in 2022.

at 17 per, 15 = 255pilots, and 33 = 561. or 816 total. Thats about 450 more Captains needed. Yay!

Dude our RSV is trash! You must be a MEM bro.

I am. And.........

One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. But we also have significantly more Reserve schedule Flexibility than Spirit. Significant dropping/swapping/moving reserve days and the ability to pickup trips from open time or drop reserve days for actual trips. Which you obviously took advantage of.

You do know that Spirit can only drop one block of reserve days per YEAR, right? Na, you came from Compass and United.

Dang, you sat a whopping 12 Days of Reserve at FedEx in 2.5 years. You don’t have a clue what it’s like to be a prisoner on Reserve. Charmed life. You must’ve dropped a significant number of Reserve days during that grueling two month period. 😭

prisoner? I’m certainly a critic of many aspects of this contract and rsv but folks are far from prisoners. Rsv is really not that bad. It could be better but if you want to see a lot worse might I direct you to Alaska, jetblue, United, (not sure about AA).

While I know things could always be worse I would be interested in knowing how bad others reserve rules are. Aside from airport standby (which we don’t have) I’m not sure what makes anything worse then 6 days on? That four days off goes away real quick when you add a commute on both ends as well.


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How about 6 on 2 off for starters. No early release on the last day. Not sure how much Spirit does it, but I know places that will call you as soon as your duty on, to duty you off for 10 hours to duty you back on for a late-night trip. Really jack with your rhythm. Just to name a small few.

if you commute you should bid long call if you can’t hold a line. Short call commuter will suck just about anywhere. RAP roulette and no green drops from the outside in are nonsensical and absolutely need to be fixed. In base rsv here is probably better than at least half of major airlines including some legacies.

I am new to 121, and never sat reserve at my previous carrier (yeah - lucky!) Would you please share some of the "better" aspects of NK's reserve rules? I am a new hire starting in April.
TIA

it’s pretty nuanced honestly and hard to explain here. Know the contract as soon as you get off IOE. Bid accordingly. You’ll hit the line in summer so it’ll be busier than usual and you’ll get used more. Living in base is the best thing you can do though. Commuting sucks and commuting to rsv at any airline sucks terribly

I personally think we should all become familiar with the term “Downgrade”. Our stock is $25.xx. We boutta get #AIRTRANNED

Lol ^^^ [emoji23]


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Spirit builds trips like that, they are always in open time, fly a red eye in at 6am and fly back to base at 8pm. Fun times.



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Sounds like everyday life at Atlas lol

We should start with RSV day crediting 5 hours which would allow for a 15/15 schedule.

No Chit! Not sure how we allowed a 4 hour reserve day..

Glad I’m not the only one wondering about that

Really.......you’re not sure.....
Our contact was written with such a lack of detail. Other than pay rates not really many gains. The company can take advantage of so many sections because the negation committee was fine with vagueness. Let’s be honest, they tried their best but the Spirit ALPA got beat.

Pilots eat their young.



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lol, I was being facetious. I know they got beat.. they got beat real good. Time to flush and start over!

If you're in any local other than 77 be sure you let your reps know you want change. This goes for all y'all. The way it looks now is we'll go into C2025 negotiations with the same crew.

Oooh, will we also get the same 50 pilots that turn out for picketing events?

Won't matter who's in the MEC if the best this group can do is thump our chests on APC while management screenshots it. Meanwhile, more JetBlue and AA pilots than Spirit pilots show up to Spirit picketing events.

Bit of a thread drift though.

100% accurate nonetheless

This! We have a big problem with keyboard commandos whether its on APC or WhatsApp.