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What are upgrade times now and how long do you feel they will be in the near future? How long for a new hire to hold ORD or DTW?
Thanks for your help.

It’s been pretty steady at about 3 years for a while. Near future is looking good, 40 upgrades and 60 new hires a month. It’s supposed to stay this way for a while, but who knows.

You could get ORD and DTW from right away to a few months.

Has Spirit actually had/awarded a 40/60 month yet since the recent announcement/rumor of this much hiring and upgrading? Thanks, just curious.

December bid had 48 upgrades, November bid had 40, October bid had 26 upgrades.

This is good news thanks.

As long as they keep getting airplanes, things should keep moving around here

With increased hiring at the big three, are captains here moving to places like that? I doubt it but I thought I'd ask anyway.

Daaayum, nice.

Just spoke to two instructors who said the plan is 340 upgrades in the next year.

Basically zero.

This last month I moved up 8 spots. Could have been a retirement or two, but there are always going to be some (with a lot of years left) that make the move if they want to.

It would be safe to say the average age of a Spirit captain is mid 40’s and 5-7 years seniority. If you’re a line holder and hit the top of the current pay scale while saving 30% (matching the company direct contribution) it would be tough to make a legacy jump pay off.

A younger FO frustrated in base or with dreams of wide body flying might, but with a relatively young pilot group I would make my career plan here based off growth not attrition

My guess is that they are FOs senior to you who left. I can see a 1 year FO leaving for a Legacy; as far as CAs with a few years in the seat, I honestly can’t remember the last time I heard one leave

Agreed. Some of us are looking at 30+ years in the left seat and if you're anywhere close to upgrading it doesn't make much sense to leave given the amount of money you can be socking away in long term investments at such a young age. I'm going to have a pretty sweet portfolio before age 40 that I wouldn't have if I left for a legacy right now. Jumping ship to a legacy over upgrading at NK is a tough sell unless you're commuting and want to live in base at a legacy.

Second year FO pay at UPS is more than 5 year captain pay here...

Is this one of those alternative facts?

I was referring to the legacy pax airlines to be more specific, but even at that APC is showing only 175 for second year FO at UPS :confused:

Flying with a guy that’s waiting for a class at UPS, 81 hours guarantee, $190 per hour : $15,390
NK 72 hours, $206/hr : $14,832

Anyone staying here for the money is wrong.

Old rates, $190 for year 2

Any reason why you chose to leave out the A321 override?

Left out this as well. I'd say he was being generous.

A/B Fund:

A Plan: 1% FAE or Flat dollar $4000 times YOS (Max 30 years) equals $120,000/year pension. Flat dollar amount increases to $4200 on 1/1/21

B Plan: 12%

Compared to this-

401K:

12% defined contribution; 1% increase per year to 15%

Lazy?

$14,832 x 1.02 = $15,129, still less than UPS.
And by 2021 only 30 of 193 will be A321, so override will be down to 1.2%....

You are seriously suggesting the extra 3% we don’t even get until 2021 is worth more than a $120K/yr payment?

Hint, it costs about $2K a month for 30 years in contributions to get $120K per year for 25 years. The extra company match of 3% is about $500 per month.

Definitely not. I was supporting you. Amortized value of UPS pension is enormous. Apologies, thought the math was obvious.

Ha, sorry, don't apologise, I totally took that the wrong way.

The last time I tried talking about making more money here I got the angry mob coming after me with the pitch forks, good luck.

Apparently people would rather stay here doing “Asheville turns all day” here rather than fly the widebodies at a legacy because they like the style here.

So then why are you still here? Go get in one of them widebodys and start living the charmed life departing Louisville for Dubai at 2 AM.

I hope you get the call to UPS but that is cargo flying not one of the legacys. With American, Delta, and United there is a huge difference in 1st year pay plus time to upgrade back. When you do upgrade you will be making about $15 more a hr because your not going to be on 777. That is leaving spirit as a 5yr CA and upgrading in in 5yrs. Makes no sense for a CA but a FO should definitely go. UPS = not living in base for most people lol

Yeah...if it's not ORD the best case scenario for me is three daily flights. If it's not ATL, CLT, DEN, DTW, DFW, or MSP, it's a two leg commute on at least some days of the week. I like where I live too much to move for a job.

Narrowbody comparison is a lot more than $15/hr, plus retirement, plus profit sharing. Might want to check that number again

You mad bro? I never said it was for me. I’m just spreading the knowledge.

I think the pay rates on APC are old, buddy at UAL told me he makes $270/hr as a 7 yr 737 captain. I assume he didn't include profit sharing or the match in that. If that is correct, it's a bit more than $15/hr. It would definitely take years to make up the difference, but over 30 years, with a chance of WB captain....

Exactly. Sooner or later you have to consider the ramifications that will have on your body after a whole career of disrupting your circadian rhythm while traveling thru multiple time zones around the world. All of that comes at a price against your health, you just have to figure out what that number is for you and if it is worth it in the long run after a 20+ year career. And who knows, maybe for some it is worth the extra $XX,XXX per year.

It all circles back to my original observation:

If you are in the left seat here with line holder seniority and 20 years or less on the clock left, it would be a challenge (not impossible or improbable) to offset in terms of seniority and pay.

If you’re in your late 20’s to 30’s in either seat here, you have to decide if this is what you like... no frills, easy flying, mostly decent people, and rational dispassionate discussions about uniform policy and APU usage.

If you are somewhere in between, do the math and put in your apps as necessary.

I still wouldn’t plan any part of my career at NK based off attrition rather than growth. (Edit: the SPAMEC website seniority calculator is a handy tool)

.............

I think everyone that is considering going to another carrier, should. It would help me out a lot. Thanks in advance

What time do those Asheville turns depart?

Mad? Do I sound mad? Simply trying to help you live your best life, bro! It’s obvious your not digging our style here. Spread those wings and fly - far away from us mean Spirit pilots and our pitchforks.


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Absolutely. I’m very happy at Spirit, and I know I’d be miserable at a cargo carrier, regardless of pay. That being said, I have some friends on the cargo side that would be miserable flying pax. To each is own - follow your dreams. Don’t listen to the APC warriors, especially for career advice.


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Haha! I just need 106 and 25yrs with no furlough to be winning in my book lol. The comparison is not much more than 15. A 5yr CA leaves at whatever the pay is now. It will take 5yrs to upgrade so he would be at 10yr pay if he didnt leave. The difference between 5yr ca there and 10yr here is minor. In 2.5yrs retirement will be 15% but maybe theres goes to 20% i dont know. If it stay at 16% not much difference there. To make up for drastic pay decrease as a FO for 5yrs i dont think profit sharing does that much. The only thing is i have no clue what profit sharing actually comes out to. I dont want people to chase the shinny carrot. I know like many people that cargo is not the same and pays for lifestyle/rep. To call cargo rates Legacy pay is ridiculous and surprised no one called him out on it lol. A FO leaving makes sense but a CA doesn't and i hope in 2 contracts Fo pay will come close to Legacy so people wont mind being longtime FO's so we can get to +6000 pilots