Ahhh, No. The first offer to Air Tran pilots included keeping all their Captain seats, almost immediate raises to Southwest pay rates, but with significant loss of seniority. Their MEC did not release it to membership for a vote.

Ahhh, no. MEC didn't have to release it to the members, and because it was so bad, a lot (i won't say most, because no formal vote was taken) agreed it didn't deserve a vote. The second offer was way worse, and included the threat of you don't take it you are out of a job. It wasn't offered by SWAPA, but came directly fro SWA management (side-note, yes, a union is supposed to protect it's own members over other groups, but a union that lets management do it's work for it..... against fellow pilots). It wasn't me, but it was in my house. SWA is a GREAT company to work for if they hired you, but as a 6 year NK guy I would rather merge with Mesa than SWA.

Bingo.....

If we just didnt start building a 250 mil headquarters then i would say a merger could be possible. Now i would give my stamp of approval that it's not possible and we are too profitable. We are blowing up to to become the big 4. If we get that seating comfort right we will be on our way. My wife flew on the MD80 last week for work and said it was terrible and preferred our planes lol. I have worked under AA, DL, UA, F9, and midwest at my other company and I'm impressed with spirit operations. New guys get on now and dont be fooled by the few that talk spirit down. Its Its actually pretty great with mostly one or 2 leg days. If i do 3 legs im working to hard lol

British Airways is buying us. They need that new US Headquarters to try to convince regulators that they are a us company. With Brexit a new open skies agreement is happening between the USA and Britain. Also regulators are going to bring the retirement age up to 90 so that the retired BA pilots can fly the Spirit jets here in the USA.

More to follow next week. Stay tuned.

Easy there skippy 290 planes is smaller than current jetblue not the big 4 and that’s 7 years from now. The big 4 have 800-1000 planes just at mainline not counting their feeders.

So you worked at probably republic under all the legacies and you’re impressed by our operations. Ya don’t say. How majors operate their regionals and how they operate their mainline are completely different. I’m glad spirit is better than your regional. I supposed to be! It’s got a long way to go on our side and the corporate side to be a real player. We don’t have much of a chance if people set the bar as better than my regional.

Wrong. How about doing some research before posting? Jetblue is currently at 254 planes. Spirit will outsize them unless they acquire more aircraft.

And dont forget those are 15+ year old planes and 60 of them are 190s.

They have 2 fleets soon to be 3 before back down to two. Why in the world would anybody sign up for that headache?

Try asking AA guys what they think of their operations... the amount of times I’ve jump seated on them and had to wait extended periods of time for rampers or jet bridge drivers to show up. Or even for a gate on a good weather day.

Sorry this isn’t accurate at all. Spirit isn’t the only one who ordered NEO’s. Two on property at Jetblue, with 83 left to come.

Growth or replacement?

NEOs are growth. The 70 A220’s are replacements for the e190.

What do NEOs on order at Jetblue have to do with their total fleet size? If you have information that contradicts 254 total airframes at Jetblue presently, please, let us know.

I wasn’t talking about their total fleet size today. You said Spirit will have more planes on property unless Jetblue makes an order and I was correcting you. Were you saying that Spirit has more aircrafts today?

I don’t know if Spirit will end up outsizing Jetblue as you put it. If you finish with over 350 aircrafts, you will.

I wasn’t refuting your 254 claim. It’s a little outdated, but in the ballpark.

Bluejet has a net gain of 93 frames between now and 2025. That should put the count just below 350 by then. 70 220’s replacing 60 190’s leaves 10 extra to most likely replace a few of the older airbii. There is no plan from the company to replace any airbus aircraft before 2025. Fwiw

One thing we know for sure, no matter how many aircraft an airline has, the plural is still aircraft.

Given the thread title, it may become “Airbii”. :D

Because the NY and DC markets were dominated by those 2 airlines.

So, we agree that the MEC didn’t release the first offer for a membership vote, the offer that protected captain seats. I posted that to refute the previous poster claiming the SW pilot CBA stipulates taking all the left seats.

As a 6 year NK guy, would you rather merge with Mesa because you would be the Big Guy in the merger, or is it something else? How did that end up with FAPA and Republic?

As a 1.5 year NK guy, I'd rather merge with anyone else but SWA because SWA has a history of horribly treating merged employee groups. Whether it be the union, management, whoever, doesn't matter.

I agree with part 1.
Part two, mostly just wanted to express how much I don't want to merge with SWA, because of how they treat their acquired employees.

This guy ^^^^^ gets it.

Symbian, I wish you the greatest successes at NK. And I doubt we will see any sort of merger between our employers.

Now, prior to any merger, all sides of corporate and labor attempt to protect their own. Afterwards, it would be counterproductive to treat anybody poorly.

True, but it sure is fun to spin Whackmaster up again and again so he can self torture himself to the end of time. I've watched a TV show where Hell is just a place where miserable people punish themselves again and again. APF is a good preview for WM.

Well, do you honestly believe everyone forgot how they were treated the moment they changed the gold for silver stripes? I know for a fact the last classes, quite a while afterwards, to go from 717 captain to 737 fo, regardless of seniority on the combined list felt poorly. Not just because of the downgrade, but the attitude received ( and given I'm sure) from the SWA side. It was very different from newhire class (again, both from close personal experience).
Having said all that, I have ex-TWA & AWA friends that feel the same about LAA and LUS so there's that.
I would rather pass on all.

It’s funny, because 7 years into the merger, the overwhelming majority of the former AirTran folks are very happy. Hell, about half of them I get 2 days into the trip before it comes out that they used to work for AirTran.
You would assume by listening to whack and a few others that it is the worse thing to ever happen to their careers.
It was a hard pill for some of them, I get that. Lives were uprooted in some cases and a lot of guys had to do a victory lap in the right seat. All that being said, 98 percent of them are just happy to be alive and flying the line at a solvent and functioning airline that allows them to spend 18-19 days a month at home with their families. 2 percent of them make 99 percent of the noise and won’t let it go. A lot of swa guys (myself included) lost seniority in the merger, but they don’t complain nearly as loud.
The juniorist AirTran FOs are coming into the upgrade window this upcoming year.
Management chose to give the majority of the AirTran fleet to their biggest domestic competitor and keep all the pilots. Such is life. The pilots were left with a crappy situation to handle...merge pilot groups without the airplanes. I think they handled it the best they could.

You are right, the person in my family that got displaced and held back for upgrade (without having to commute) for years is NOW very happy with SWA. Probably one of the reasons I still get fired up about this, is the reaction of other (younger) pilots when I talk about knowing an exAT pilot, and invariably their reaction is: “ohh, nice pay bump”. No, it wasn’t, displacement led to a move the family had to deal with, upgrade delayed by years, and hostile initial was not a great experience. Probably better to let the spilled milk join the water under the bridge.....
Still recognize the EX-AT when I JS, not nearly as crisp and starched as L-SWA ;)

Bingo. You get it. The “You’re not worthy of being at SWA” attitude gets old....fast. That said, save your breathe as they’ll never get it and just pray that you’re never on the receiving end of a SWA merger/acquisition.

Hope it never happens. I’m totally fine with not worthy of swa. I wouldn’t go there if they begged me. I’ll keep my 3 year upgrade. And being 25% of seniority in 5 more years. And they can all stay FOs for 12 years. Win win!!