Income and schedule new pilots
 

Good morning.. I am about to join Spirit and will like to hear from new pilots how schedule looks like and how much money they get right after training (monthly total net or gross) 1st and then 2nd year?
Is it possible to get FLL or MCO right after training?
How many nights a month out of base?
Thanks!!

I’m no expert and these are rough numbers but about:

$1500 a month in training after tax

3700 a month first year after tax

7600 a month second year after tax

Line holders maybe 16 days off a month.

pilots in the schoolhouse are being awarded FLL and MCO before being released to the line right now

Thanks for asking the question. I’m curious too.

Reserve will be 6 on 4 off, unless it’s integration then they can roll it to 6 on 1 off, which I have unfortunately done. For reserves I think it’s 13 days off a month (someone else might know for sure). You should be able to get FLL or MCO relatively soon out of training, if not in training.


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12 off for 30 day month, 13 for 31 day month

Been hoping someone asks someone along these línes... I want to add to the question.

On reserve how much flexibility do you have on your schedule?
Can you bid when your reserve blocks are?
Are there morning, mid day or night RAPs? Can you choose preference?
Can you do less than blocks of 6 days on?
Can you get more than 4 days off in row?
Can you pick up open time?
Are you straight reserve till you get a line or do you get consolidation lines every couple of months?
And lastly... how long is reserve time until you can enjoy the benefits of being a line holder in let’s say ORD?

Thank you!

Since the new contract I don’t bid reserve anymore so I can’t help with some of the questions. You cannot pick up anything while on reserve nor can you drop reserve days as you used.


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What are these numbers based off of???

More or less 72 hours @ year 1 and year 2 pay after taxes

If you fly often on reserve the per diem offsets most of your contributions (401k, medical etc) during the first year pay.

It has been discussed exhaustively in other threads about possibilities to earn over guarantee, but it would be wise to budget first year pay assuming you will not break the 72 hours.

The answer to most of these questions with PBS bidding is yes you can bid for those.

No you cannot pick up open time on Reserve or Off days, only premium trips and only if scheduling offers them to you.

Depending on the time of the month you finish OE, you will get 1-1.5 months as a line holder (build up line). This is less about consolidation and more because you are not eligible to bid with the other first officers until OE is done. During that time you can add drop swap etc as a full line holder, but once you are eligible to bid you will almost assuredly be back on reserve.

There is no consolidation line “every couple months”

Just curious why you chose three question marks?

2nd year pay: $106.5. x 72hrs = lets not lie to the kids.

I know what my guarantee pay is and it ain't even close to $7600 after taxes and that's senior to second year.

Those weren’t my calculations, I’m guessing the year two number was his personal average? But yes I agree, that’s before tax at guarantee.

Year 2 if you can hold a line (possible in some bases) and you’re a worker and want to swap a pick up and credit 90-100 then sure, $7600 after taxes is possible even without premium pay.

So these are bust your ass numbers, gotcha, makes sense.

...and here come the "it's very possible in ____ base to block >70 credit 100+ with 16+ off! I make $100k, $150k, $200k, $250k while enjoying more off time than ____ pilots!" posts.

I don’t see how $7600 per month pre tax is an outlandish number for year 2 pay? Obviously everyone’s actual take home will vary by state and other factors but just taking our min guarantee which is 72 hours and multiplying it by the rate $106 currently it gives you $7600. I’m legitimately curious how else are you supposed to come up with a rough income number ?

To clarify yes, to get 7600 on year two after taxes second year would take some manipulation for higher credit trips and pick ups and less than normal minimum days off. Bust your ass/bit of luck.

First year (57 x 72 = 4104 and guess 20% taxes ~ 3300 net). Assumptions being: No premium pay, and You will most likely be on reserve and breaking guarantee by 5-10 hours isn’t a significant increase.

Depending what month you are hired/finish training/released to the line can affect what amount of a fiscal year you spend at each pay rate. For instance I hit the annual pay bump mid year, so my annual salary doesn’t reflect a full year at a given pay. Of course once you are past year 2 pay the increase is much less drastic so the salary normalizes until you upgrade.

Those are the gross income numbers, not the net.

1. We lost flexibility with this contract. No dropping. Trade with other crew member yes.
2. We have a huge problem with PBS and reserve bidding. The system either honors the specific RAP you want or the days off you want. Not both. You would think the union would have found a solution around the system but no. On top of that, day offs bid can backfire for coverage award. If you don’t care which days off you get, you can prioritize the RAP.
3. RAPs depend on base and month. For example FLL has R3, R7, R10 and R19.
the number represents the starting time and ends 14hrs later. Last day of a block of RAP you could auto release 6 hrs prior if not used. R19 would give you more time off.
4. You could bid for a maximum of 6 RAPs in a row (5 for R19) and the min will be determined every month by crew planning. For example, min RAP block in FLL in Dec is 4.
5. Depending how you bid, you could get more than 4 days off in a row, but you’ll definitely will work the same number of RAPs.
6. No open time pickup on reserve. You can list on days off for x/y list but it’s hard to be legal.
7. After OE you get a relief line with all the privileges of a line holder. The first month you’re eligible to bid, you get what your seniority can hold, so... yeah reserve. No going back to consolidation.
8. Holding a line in ORD could take a while. Maybe 8-12 months. Maybe an ORD can chime in.

Correct which is why I said pre tax but with out knowing what state your in for effective tax rate, and other variables all you can reliably give to a stranger on the internet would be the gross numbers.

So in this case... the original post shouldn't say it's after taxes... I don't know why we're arguing my point.

Correction to a couple of rough edges. Otherwise, a good summary.

#2. Reserve is a two step process. Days off, are the only thing considered via seniority. The RAP is then awarded based off your awarded days off.

#5. Unless you have a known absence (training, vacation, etc.) You will need 18 days of reserve EVERY month. How you fit that into the month, is up to your bidding strategy considering (the current) a min of 4 day blocks on call

#7. you'll only be awarded a Relief Line if youre released to the line, after 12:00ET on the 7th of (insert bid month here)

Any educated guesses for time to a line for MCO/FLL? Assuming waive down to 3 days off. Or even better yet, teach a man to fish, how would I calculate this myself using flica?

This is not accurate. It awards days off first, and then raps in order of preference/availability, so it may or may not be able to get you your first choice. YOU CANNOT always get a specific rap/improve your chances of getting a specific rap, just by not requesting certain days off, thats not how it works. It might help, but too many variables at play (seniority, Bids awarded prior to you, reserve need/grid, coverage awards etc) The PBS guys wont recommend what you suggested, not preferring days off, as it is not a surefire way to get a specific rap.
By not bidding for days off you are not helping yourself. Ask the PBS guys.

But yes, I agree it sucks the way it currently works as days off and raps are not awarded together.

I’m currently on second year pay and live in California. I contribute 8% to the 401k and it’s the wife and I on my insurance. $7600 take home is way too high. If you bust your ass and are gone most the month, maybe. But to those seeing those numbers and getting excited, there’s no way they’re possible with 16 days off unless you had a few x/y trips.

People will argue about anything.


Anyone asking about pay now isn’t even hired yet and would be making like $109/hr+ 2nd year. I looked at the last bid packet and saw the average line was 80.75 hours. I assume someone getting hired during this hiring boom might have a line by year 2.

109 x 80.75 = 8,800.
8,800 x 0.80 (tax) (No state income tax in FL and single benefits plan)
=7,000.

Add about 400 per deim ( pEr DeIm iSnT iNcOmE)

=7,400.

The math doesn’t seem outlandish to me, but like I said:
Of course, if your situation is dramatically different than mine you can expect dramatically different pay :rolleyes: naturally deducting an entire family’s benefits and paying $800 a month to live in California will yield a different pay

Ah gotcha all you gotta do is pay for zero benefits, pay less than the federal income tax, no FICA taxes, and add nothing to your retirement other than the company contribution and you’re all set.

You cannot prioritize RAP over days off. By not selecting which days off you want you are simply allowing PBS to select them for you. THEN the system awards RAPs based on needs for the days you were awarded. It's a crapshoot for RAPs. Navblue in it's current state is completely incompatible with our reserve rules, I have questioned whether it is even contractually compliant. The union doesn't seem to care so I don't see anything changing.

17 days off in November and no calls for the X list or Y list. FO Based in Florida. Don’t ever count on premium trips to make ends meet! It’s nice when they call but there is zero guarantees. Plan on the base 72hrs on reserve or what ever your line value is.

Fact.

Filler

Thanks for clarifying. I haven’t dealt with reserve after PBS and just recently began familiarizing myself with the system. That’s my big reason to keep bypassing upgrade.

Ah yup don’t know how I managed to miss that he claimed the numbers as post tax, my apologies, carry on.

Perhaps you didn't list yourself for this weekend? Or already have too much premium credit this year? I got called twice on Friday and once Saturday. Each time scheduling called they had a couple of trips to choose from.

How long to hold ord again? Also I can guarantee if you wanted fll or mco out if training you basically got it

Same for me. FLL FO very low on seniority list.

Unfortunately I’m working the entire weekend. Sometimes it’s timing and luck I suppose! Glad there are calls going out!!!!

At least a couple people understand how this works.

As long as folks senior to me are not bidding days off thinking it’s getting them their preferred rap it helps me get the days off I want I guess.

US: RAPs MATTER!!!

Navblue: suck it!!

No they won’t.



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Yes they will.

Awesomeness