From 91/135 Straight To A Major?
 

Hey everyone – I’m posting this in a couple of different forums so that I can hopefully get input from a good cross section of the community.

I’m 47 years old. Currently flying light jets and turboprops PIC part 91 and 135. I have an ATP, 3540 TT, 2250 Multi, 1860 total turbine (1300 jet), 880 PIC turbine (690 jet). All the turbine time is in light jets (Citations & Lears) and King Airs. Clean record, no restrictions, etc. etc. Based on the state of the industry (particularly the airline industry), I’m seriously considering the jump over to 121. I know there are pros and cons to both and those have been debated ad nauseum. What I’m trying to get a feel for is whether my times, type of experience (91/135), age, etc. make me anywhere near competitive for any of the majors (including the ULCC’s, particularly Spirit). I meet the minimums for all of them, but I know I’d likely be at the bottom of the stack at American, Southwest, etc. But, is direct to somewhere like Spirit a realistic goal right now? I know the 121’s prefer 121 experience (i.e. Regional), but I feel like I might be right on the edge of being attractive to those guys with my current times. I have NOT put in any applications at this point, because I’m trying to decide how best to focus my efforts and how I need to set my expectations. I know everyone says “apply when you have the minimums”, and I’ll certainly do that when/if I decide to pull the trigger, but I’m wondering if I’d be fooling myself trying to break in to a major without any previous 121 time. Worst case, I suspect (based on everything I’ve seen/read/heard) that I could do 2 or 3 years at a regional and be a pretty good candidate (on paper at least) for pretty much all the majors. That would still give me almost 15 years flying with the big boys.

I know there are posts that address this issue at least tangentially, but I decided (hopefully not in error) to make a post with my specific numbers and situation. Just looking to get feedback or possibly experiences from those who have been in the middle of this for a while or that may have taken a similar path. Thanks for any and all input and advice, and best of luck to everyone with getting where you want to go!

I was hired a year ago at an LCC (JetBlue) with about 500 hours more than you. Time distribution was pretty similar however I had over 1000 jet PIC. There were 1-2 guys with around 3000 hours and several with no turbine PIC time, however I was the only one with zero 121 experience.

It’s definitely possible, however it seems still
to be the exception rather than rule.

All you can do is make sure your application is as polished up as it can be and apply everywhere you think you want to work. If you don’t have your apps in, nobody is going to call.

I have actually heard places like Southwest love you 135 pilots, dont sell yourself short. In addition, you could always make the jump to one of the regionals in your town, get through a 121 check ride and build a few hundred hours, thus strengthening your resume that way. Good luck to you!

I was hired by B6 and SWA without any 121 time, all 91/135. Had about 5100TT when I got the calls. For me it was anything logical I could do to set my resume apart, be it LCA, ACP, Volunteering, and attending fairs. Did any of it help? Not sure, but it didn't hurt.

From 91/135 Straight To A Major?
 

I went 135 straight to NK. Definitely possible. If you secure an interview or MTC they focus on training failures, TMAAT, and weigh “Why Spirit?” heavily. I have a friend starting class next week that is coming from 135 but he was an LCA and had prior 121 from when he had less than 1,500 hours; when the ATP law went into effect he and others like him got the axe.

I think they’ve fixed it recently but the application process/portal used to be pretty pretty clunky but keep it updated just like you would any of the others nevertheless. Good luck.

A friend was flying 135 last year and interviewed at Spirit in August and had a class by Dec. He was a little bit heavier on the TT and TPIC, but got the offer nonetheless. The old adage of "you never know until you try" is 100% correct. You just have to determine if the move is right for you. I'm in a similar boat and hoping to get a call.

Help me out - LCA? ACP? Pardon my ignorance...

I came directly from flying 91. The only difference was my resume was only slightly more attractive. I had 4,000 hours, 1500 TPIC, and a bit younger (although my class had guys in their mid-50s). I never went to a Meet the Chiefs but I had one internal recommendation. Only way you’ll find out is if you apply.

Hey 2Good. I know several 135 (Citation) pilots that went straight to the majors recently. All are happy with the move. Some are older than you.

Line Check Airman and Assistant Chief Pilot

Basically if you can pick up a management title or similar your chances will go up. They seem to like to see career progression. Don’t just be a line pilot for 10 years and expect to get a call.

^^^^^ This is right on

Awesome feedback guys! Thanks so much for the input!

Agree about career progression, but not totally on 2nd half.
I applied to be a LCA at my regional and then withdrew. I decided I didn't really want to do it, but was only doing it to pad the resume. Therefore I wouldn't enjoy it, and certainly would not be the best option for the students. I was fully prepared to justify this answer in an interview, but it never came up.

FWIW I was hired at NK with over 10,000 TT strictly line flying.

Must have really nailed the "Why Spirit" I guess, hahaha.

Thank you sir

As soon as I finished IOE at a 121 carrier, I got the call. The recruiter said by updating my profile and the fact that I just went through a 121 training cycle is what helped put me on the radar. I have almost the same exact flight time and background as you. I was a checkairman and have a masters degree. Nothing seemed to work better than checking the 121 box.

Had a couple guys in my class at Spirit that were part 91/135 only, as well as some pilot's that had only light twin time flying for 135 outfit with no jet time. So yes it can be done, and I wouldn't be surprised if this trend continues as major's continue to retire pilots and the demand starts applying pressure on the regionals. My understanding is the big 6 and ULCC'S will require close to 7000 pilots hired this year, and that trend will be continuing for quite some time.

The majority of my career was part 91, with a brief stint in 121. Flying for regional was good experience, but I'm glad to be done with it.

I'm starting class at NK next month and have zero 121 time.

3500 Total
2500 Multi
2000 PIC
1400 Turbine PIC

All 91/135 in King Airs, Beechjets, and Lears. I've never held any management positions, but I know they definitely help your odds. Go to a Meet The Chiefs event and be friendly, toss in a few internal letters of rec if you can, and wait 1-3 months. You'll get the call...

Been in property for a few months. No prior 121. No military time, no degree

When hired had:
4200 total
1200 PIC
1000 TPIC
4000 turbine multi
All Lear and older Gulfstreams 135 operator.

Outstanding! Congrats!

Excellent feedback. Thank you!

Congrats to you as well! Love the Lear! It was my first type.

If you do the check airman or chief pilot thing....drop it when you show up to your airline gig. You're just an FO and better act like one when you're new :)


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I'll pick up their dry cleaning if that's what it takes (for a while ;-) )

Spirit and Frontier are going to need to hire thousands of pilots in a growing industry with a shrinking labor pool against other carriers that pay more money, treat their employees better, and offer better career progression and seniority. Frankly, there isn't a better time to get hired here.

I’d like to think that’s how it will play out.

The buzz around Spirit right now is undeniable. Have read very few negative "this place sucks" posts, which is rare on these boards. I would love to get on board there right now. With 17 years left for a 121 career, I can't think of a better fit. Anyone know when the next Meet The Chiefs is? :-)

ask AA guys If their company treats them better then spirit treats us. At least since the contract.

And frankly LCC's may prefer at this point to hire competent pilots who don't fit the traditional legacy mold... in hopes of hanging onto them.

Well, picking the one off example and worst legacy out there probably isn’t the strongest play to debunk his overarching point.

I'm pleased to see the mostly encouraging responses to this thread, because it means I'm still in the running, but it clearly still takes some luck or internal recs to get some people over the line. Spirit is my top choice. I've got 6000+ TT, most of it jet or turboprop PIC, and 10 years as Chief Pilot. But crickets so far. I'm also having technical problems with the app website, but hopefully I can get that squared away and get a call soon.

Going to the MTC / job fair events and talking to the recruiters, is probably more important than what’s on your resume.

Looks like I missed the December MTC, and I'm not finding anything recent on job fairs. Any idea when the next ones are?

We will be at Women in Aviation in Orlando. March 5-7th.

Besides the high fives and sweet ass Bendo videos my 'treat them better' remark was in reference to pay, retirement, and profit sharing. All three of which we are considerably behind. Even AA.

money ain’t everything.

Can I do what needs doing in a day? An afternoon? How does it work? Sorry for all the basic questions, I just have zero clue on this.

Absolutely. Go and buy ticket for whichever day you want to come and show up and chat up the Spirit Booth.

Sandi, our lead HR/hiring person, will be there along with some other HR and line pilots.