Atlas 767 CA move to Spirit
 

Current 767 CA

Live in Orlando area. Not moving have house and property here. Looking at Spirit to improve QOL and drive to work. Growth and Contract look appealing.

Pros vs Cons

Several Atlas guys have come over recently. Can’t speak for atlas but most new guys are very happy here myself included.

That’s a tough call considering you’re already a captain. You’ll take a huge pay cut. Besides the bs going on with the contract at Atlas, what’s bothering you the most? If being gone from home so many days in a row it’s a bid deal, then yeah, NK could be a good choice. There’s nothing like sitting reserve at home, specially in low season when you might even de-qual. You’d be flying your own product, huge growth potential and better job stability. Living in base will improve your QOL enormously and open up opportunities for making extra money (line holder only).
The obvious cons., mostly domestic flying, no exotic destinations, multiple legs a day, narrow body only (despite some pilot’s 330 dreams), not so great travel benefits.
If you get hired today, you could still upgrade in +/- 3 years.

Not sure how long he’s been there, but aside from year 1 it’s not that big of a pay cut. Assuming you can take a short term paycut, seems like a no brainer to me. Especially living at the fastest growing base.

Atlas 767 CA in my JB new hire class. Lived in a JB domicile.
He’s much happier. Just wished he had made the move sooner.

Yes....my beard is growing in nicely

Former Atlas 767 CA here. I made the jump a few months ago to Spirit. Training pay is painful but I anticipate making just as much on second year FO pay than I was on 5 yr CA pay. MCO and FLL are jr, so you will get either of them pretty much out of training. As of now, we are growing like crazy with no end in sight along with extensive growth anticipated for MCO. I live in S. FL, and the QOL increase is already mind-blowing. Living in base was a major factor for me. I had a lot of fun flying at Atlas and wouldn't trade the experience, but it was well past time to move on from all the BS that is going on over there.

I made the jump six years ago from Suddern. With exactly the same subsequent experience as you.

It’s uncanny, and also sad. Not too long ago Atlas was one of my top choices non-Purple/Brown... turns out them not extending me an interview nearly a decade ago was the best gift they ever gave me.

If you live in a Spirit base it’s literally a no-brainer.

Duplicate post.

Also a former Atlas guy here, interviewing next month but looking forward to the opportunities at Spirit if I get the offer!

come on over. You won’t regret it. Airbus is awesomer too. Never thought I’d say that.

Former Evergreen 747 driver. Upgrade is going down to 2 years. Once in the left seat at our pay scales, you won’t regret it.

Next contract even more pay. Quality of life can’t be beat. Management is extremely supportive and friendly.

Best career move I’ve made. My 401K just keeps getting bigger faster than I could have imagined.

I know it sounds terrible. Maybe hold out for A legacy.

2 year upgrades? Curious how you came up with that...seems to be pretty steady at 3 years.

Number of planes being delivery and the amount of Captains we will need. Right now, 3 year up grade. As deliveries increase it will go down to 2 years.

Timing is everything. Overall 2-3 years isn’t bad.

I Just flew with a captain who was at 2 years 7 months. He just finished OE in December.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

With the airbus supply chain issues and deliveries being pushed out I imagine 3 year upgrades will continue.

My upgrade class in November ranged from 3 years 6 months to 2 years 7 months. I would expect it to stay slightly under 3 for a while still.

That’s the upgrade time right now. With the planned airframe order of 300, I think it would be very rare for anyone getting hired now to upgrade in 3 years. If you were to run the numbers it seems as though we utilize 14 crew per plane. With 300 planes that’s 4200 pilots total. Figure half are captains, 2100 would be the needed seniority number to upgrade here. And we already have more than that on property. Again, those are just my estimates but I’d be cautious with the 2-3 year upgrade with new hires. And we have very few retirees. But it is a great place to work even as an FO.

we don't use 14 crews per plane. more like 17

17 x 300 = 5100. 2550 captains. Ie everyone on property April 2020. Woohoo

And to continue that vast oversimplification, with the last delivery for now in 2027, a possible 7+ year upgrade for the plug! YMMV

Who says we’re stopping at 300 airplanes?

Prolly the same guy who said we were stopping at 150...

Captains are more than 50% of the seniority list. This is mostly because they get more vacation time, and use more medical leave. Not to mention they are more likely to work in the training department than First Officers.

Not sure the average rolling seniority required to hold Captain, maybe 57% or so? It's pretty dynamic right now. Skewed by those that bypass upgrade for a lengthy period. Also the massive surge to catch up on Captain upgrades from the lost year. When the company kicked the tires on their new PBS toy, thinking it was far faster than it was. It's still pretty fast though.

Wasn't this thread about a Giant trying on SpiritWings though? Make the leap man, Bezos already spent y'all's money on his midlife crisis.

You sound like my wife. So what did it cost. Oh about 200. Was really 277 but lower sounds better


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

its around 65% right now....while you are correct that part of this is due to staffing more captains than FO’s, the biggest reason is due to our horrible RSV qol. Fact is, a lot of FO’s are bypassing because they don’t wanna be on RSV.

besides not being able to move days around, what’s so bad about our reserve?

This. I know a lot of guys passing to stay off reserve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With current utilization commuting to reserve means days in a crashpad or hotel vs. extra days at home for one. Especially meh if you live in another base as a senior FO.

well sure, but that’s the same about any airline. It’s why upgrade is down to 3 years at AA as well. Nobody wants to sit reserve in LGA.

Not being able to manipulate your days off post award

Limited premium flying opportunities

no assurance of reserve period despite seniority

commute to reserve vs trips

can’t swap with open for preferred layover cities, soft credit, more commutable, etc

long call converted to short call

flying the awful orphan trips leftover, or cobbled together Frankenstein pairings like double deadhead layover, one leg, layover, deadhead home and no hotel/transport booked

getting called out on a holiday because a line holder short calls sick

Sure there are people here who talk about how easy reserve life is here, but it’s largely anecdotal.

Atlas 767 CA move to Spirit
 

What does a second year FO make? Average salary.

Not being able to manipulate your days off post award

if you can get the days off you want on rsv compared to not being able to get them on a junior line and then having to manipulate your schedule to get what you could have gotten on rsv to begin with, what’s the point.

Limited premium flying opportunities

How so? I’d argue almost the opposite

no assurance of reserve period despite seniority

THIS 100%! 100%!!!

commute to reserve vs trips

understandable for a commuter.

can’t swap with open for preferred layover cities, soft credit, more commutable, etc

The idea is to not fly trips not to try and fly an entire month of “better” trips. The best trip is no trip at all.

long call converted to short call

long call can only be converted a few times and after that you get paid above guarantee just for the conversion. Better than no long call at all. Long call is a big win especially for commuters although you tend to get utilized more so it’s not wonderful for an in base pilot imo.

flying the awful orphan trips leftover, or cobbled together Frankenstein pairings like double deadhead layover, one leg, layover, deadhead home and no hotel/transport booked

while DH isn’t the most fun the trips are pretty dang easy compared to flying 7-8 blk days with multiple legs. Yes the hotel and transportation are a pain in the ass and always have been. Imo don’t wait just be on your way and get reimbursed. Until we move away from hotel connections the incompetence will continue

getting called out on a holiday because a line holder short calls sick

bypassing rsv to be a junior lineholder would have a new upgrade working the holiday anyway. On rsv might have gotten the holiday off to begin with

Sure there are people here who talk about how easy reserve life is here, but it’s largely anecdotal.

Truth. It’s very base, seat, and RAP specific. Living in base is the key. If you choose to commute then yes having a line would be better. Not being able to drop even once from the outside in is nonsense. Which means you cannot even use contractually mandated float vacation. This also requires diligent vacation bank management so as to not lose time at the end of the year.

Varies greatly based on many things, like which base? Do you live in base? How lazy are you, or how much do you want to hustle? How much time will you spend online manipulating your schedule? How well do you know the contract?

Answer some of those and it's easier to guesstimate. But essentially 2nd year pay currently is $107 per hour. You can multiply that by 72 to 140 per month, depending on the season and your answers to the questions above. Don't think you can hit 140 all 12 months though.

We do have some unicorns that credit insane amounts of overtime regularly. But they are outliers with geographic advantages, and again... they probably know the contract extremely well, and are flexible.

Also add just shy of 2% to total hours credited for the Airbus 321 override. And another 8% international pay if you find yourself south of Jamaica (15 degrees North).

TMI? Clear as mud?

I'd guess $110,000 for most then.

enough to more than offset the bad QOL at ACMI. No brainer! Come on over the water is warm!

Best career move youve made? Wasnt the decision made for you when Evergreen bit the dust? Or did you escape prior to the meltdown?

It is clear as mud. Thanks. To answer your question, I’d live in base (MCO), and hustle.

Thanks again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well it still depends on your luck, flexibility and willingness to learn the contract. Orlando guys could probably answer you better than I can as to how freely the overtime trips flow there. But say $135K is a reasonable WAG for a hustler.

Spirit could run a smooth operation all year with no snafus [emoji38], or as is more typical, meltdowns will happen and the overtime gravy will flow.

Not that it is any of your business, but I had multiple job offers. It was my choice to come to Spirit.

lots of Evergreen, World, Omni and Atlas guys at NK...most of whom were very marketable and chose here over VX amongst others...statistically all good investments as the ACMI pilots have a fabulous training record