Why Wouldn’t NK & F9 Merge?
 

“Home of the Bear Fare”

I think the argument for a merger between Spirit & Frontier seems pretty obvious (e.g. massive ULCC, fleet type commonality, similar contracts, route overlap, etc.). There seems to be a consensus that the trajectory of the industry may lead to more consolidation. All that said, why wouldn’t a merger between Spirit + Frontier happen? I know this is all speculative, but it highlights the differences and potential trajectories of the companies.

My opinion from the Spirit side on why no merger

Spirit doesn’t need it. Plenty of ULCC volume for 2 ULCCs, we still make up such a small percentage of domestic travel.

Spirit competes with Legacy carriers more than other ULCC carriers. It’s AA out of ORD and DFW matching our fares, and UAL up in EWR trying to cause issues for gates. I’ve never heard management mention the battle against Frontier out of MCO, if anything, it’s SWA. Plenty of ULCC volume for 2 airlines.

Spirit is trying to tighten up their reputation and image and have been slowly doing that over the years. A merger makes that even more difficult.

Does Franke want to buy Spirit? Will Spirit buy Frontier after an IPO? Will Franke sell Frontier prior to IPO? I would say “nope” on all 3. Plus where does Spirit get the cash to buy Frontier after the year long diluting of our stock and the debt brought on with the pandemic and funding growth.


No merger. Not for the next 5 years.

“Does Franke want to buy Spirit? Will Spirit buy Frontier after an IPO? Will Franke sell Frontier prior to IPO? I would say “nope” on all 3. Plus where does Spirit get the cash to buy Frontier after the year long diluting of our stock and the debt brought on with the pandemic and funding growth.”

This is the key point. With all other considerations set aside the stumbling block will always be Indigo. They’ll either want too much for Frontier or not be willing to pay enough for Spirit.

They probably weren’t going to merge but once word gets out that they can use the slogan “home of the bear fare”, I wouldn’t be surprised if something is announced the next day:D

IMHO don’t think it’s likely, not for several years if at all

It’s such low hanging fruit when people say “well clearly Spirit and Frontier will merge because they are so similar”

I guess Burger King and McDonalds will merge because they both serve burgers, have $1 items, drive thrus, so similar. They will clearly merge!

There is such things as companies doing similar things and not merging.

Karbon jackets to fly a yellow airplane. Hmmmm, I'll entertain the idea...

lol Karbon jackets...people look like dweebs wearing them.

Guess I’m a dweeb. You prefer the Admirals blazer from Deltuh I suppose.

“lol Karbon jackets...people look like dweebs wearing them.”
https://i.imgur.com/xMMWEzo.jpg

Says the guy who purposefully makes an ass of himself at every opportunity on an anonymous forum.

I didn’t say I prefer the leather jacket either.

right... you like the admirals blazer. Don’t worry Deltuh is hiring soon I’m sure. Get your app in, so you can rock that uniform, Admiral Halon.

I rock them all. I like the blazer for the spring time, enjoy the Karbon in the winter, and my leather is in the closet on the off chance I ever want to go retro. I’lol be happy if the pilot group can just wear one of the 3 jackets we have and not go all NorthFace like years past.

You sure do seem to have a chip on your shoulder. I guess you didn’t do so well in the Delta interview years ago or did they even offer it to you?

Can we all agree that there isn’t a good looking uniform jacket in any industry? Do we want Spirit hoodies so we can look like tech bros? It’s not hard to pack a regular jacket in your bag for overnights. Also God forbid a pilot looks like a pilot in the airport. I know all those passengers are wishing we didn’t look like pilots. How embarrassing it is to walk up to the counter and notice we’re the only people at the gate not dressed like Philadelphia Collins. I think we should just eliminate uniforms all together and change the name of the Company to Air Monarch operated by Cell Phone Holster and Tucked in Polo Shirt Express.

Pilot and FA uniforms for 2022:

https://th.bing.com/th/id/Reb3bacef0...sl=&pid=ImgRaw

Sure, but some are far worse than others. I feel like the AA branding is old and dated, certainly due for a more modern look. In comparison, the NF jackets look better in my opinion and are way more functional.

Pilots used to have to carry around 40 lbs of paperwork in a leather case, that has largely gone away to canvas style bags. Just because the look changes doesnt mean everyone looks unprofessional. I have seen pilots from every airline in every type of uniform look horrible. Just because it "looks" professional doesnt mean it is pulled off every time.

They all look terrible on me because I have a beer belly. But either way, I prefer the blazer due to its light weight and it fits me more comfortably than the others. Easy to get tailored to fit whatever body type you have. The leather is terrible, it isn’t long enough and looks dumb on me, other guys seem to pull it off so ymmv. The karbon is ok and in the dead of winter I’ll wear it if my overnights are all in cold cities. Most of the time it sucks lugging around the heavy leather or karbon and only wearing it for the 5 minutes you’re waiting for the ride to and from the hotel.

I like the blazer when in uniform and usually bring a rolled up puffer jacket in the suitcase for the overnights.


These are just opinions, you know what they say about opinions...

I liked the Southwest (IIRC) North Face style jackets I saw around Sea-Tac. Lightweight, clean looking, don't have to worry about wrinkles. Look better and more professional than leather jackets. Lighter, more compact, and good in the wind as well.

I agree with this. Nothing worse than the hot leather jacket in the terminal. So you take it off, put it on your bag, and it weighs 10 pounds, falling off the bag..what a mess. That Karbon sure does heat up too when indoors.

If it wasn't for the occasional wait for the hotel van in the cold, I would be 100% blazer in the fall and winter season.

These are the same karbon jackets we have. They’re heavier than they look.

:D too right! However, I don't drink beer - so is mine a "bourbon belly"?

Sweater
 

Go with the sweater, all around the most comfortable option!

mergers are bad for all employee groups. as pilots we should not want to merge. not to mention how it effects gate/ground/office jobs. also bad for our customers as prices would rise

Seniority List Integrations are arduous at best. Been through them, don’t want to do them again.

Wait, I thought this was a jacket threat? What is all of this talk of mergers?

Mergers are expensive and only done when one of the companies is struggling and cheap. Furthermore, JB, Alaska, Spirt, Frontier, Allegiant, and Sun Country could merge and still not be as big as SWA. NK/F9 would not give enough benefit to outweigh the cost.

If two of ALPA carriers merge, how are ISLs typically handled? Is it by date of hire, relative seniority? Considerations for seat position? I don’t know what the precedent or guidance is, especially with mergers of a single fleet type.

I don’t think there is one master playbook for it.

ALPA merger policy..takes into account more factors than McCaskill-Bond of "Fair and Equitable"

As far as how they will be merged, that will go to an Arbitrator after the merger committees will inevitably fail to reach an agreement, but the popular method in recent SLIs seems to be Status Category integration.

Not approved uniform as far as I know. The sweater wearers seem to think otherwise

True.............

Still the best option out there!

You must rock the leather jacket on your overnights too.

My guess is Halon doesnt wear any jacket, just a wrinkled white ****, top button undone, and says "Why do I need a jacket, I live in Florida."

lol how did you know?!

While we’re on the topic of uniforms... where is the guidance? I’ve looked at every single manual in comply and all I found was a couple sentences in the FOM. Not even anything that says the pants need to be navy:confused:

Why did it take the word “shirt” and **** it?

One would guess a letter was inadvertently left out... ;)

Ugh don’t get me started on this one lol. You make $300K a year and can’t be bothered to button your shirt properly for the company that makes your entire lifestyle possible? :rolleyes:

look up spirits yellow handbook in 365... something like that.