Originally Posted by DrDHD (Post 3246580)

I’m curious how spirit will do as labor costs rise. Seems they used to thrive on high turnover (I.e junior, cheaper pilot group) which has all but stopped in recent years. Will be interesting to see if they can maintain those low cost fares with industry standard labor pay.

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot (Post 3246819)

Spirit saves on all labor and on every other aspect of the operation. While we are the largest labor cost at the airline, still small when it comes to running the airline. This is much different than a regional where labor is the only cost and the only thing to be managed down for increased profit. This is important for those coming from RJs to understand. We are a cost but success or failure of the airline doesn’t hinge on the pilot contract at this level.

Originally Posted by DrDHD (Post 3246580)

I’m curious how spirit will do as labor costs rise. Seems they used to thrive on high turnover (I.e junior, cheaper pilot group) which has all but stopped in recent years. Will be interesting to see if they can maintain those low cost fares with industry standard labor pay.

Originally Posted by Asiabound (Post 3241102)

Hey fellas just looking for some career advice here. Currently at an ACMI, and I'm looking to be better rested and not work as hard for my money. I have a lot of friends and acquaintances at both companies and it's likely that depending upon which path I take I have a decent chance of getting a call at one or both. I don't have 1000 TPIC yet (which UA requires), but I have some jet PIC from my previous corporate life, I meet all the other min req's for both airlines. I'm very close to upgrade at my current employer, but the job is brutal enough as an FO and even more so as a Captain. So I'm trying to make the decision... do I pull every string I have and try to see if I can get an interview with Spirit without the PIC, or should I hold out and get the PIC time and go for a Legacy? Not trying to come off as conceited, neither might call me, just playing the hypotheticals here. Are there any former ACMI guys at NK that can weigh in?

The people I know at Spirit seem really happy, but there's one old acquaintance I heard left for UPS. I've also read on these forums of Spirit pilots leaving for Delta and UA. How does the narrow-body QOL compare between them? I know the pay is less, especially on the high end of the pay scale (comparing the A320 Spirit vs. A320 UA). I know you guys have a lot of good work rules, like min of 4 days between trips etc. Why do pilots leave Spirit for a Legacy? Is it just to eventually fly a widebody and make $300+/hour or is there something else I'm missing? How does the retirement compare?

My personal situation, I'm married with a young family and just turned 40, so the 20 days on the road per month is getting old. I dig flying the widebody, but I've flown all over the planet and would be fine with never flying one again, been there done that. It would really spice up my resume to put widebody PIC on it, but being a junior Captain at my company is probably one of the most brutal jobs in industry right now. I currently live in TX and have lived in FL before. I love both states so basing is mostly irrelevant as I'd be willing to move.

I appreciate your responses. I know there's no "clear" right answer. What are your thoughts?

One last question: What overnights do NK pilots have in South America? Is it only Lima?

Originally Posted by Benver (Post 3250226)

Formeer ACMI here. Now at NK. IMO you wont be aboe to time the industry or be certwin who will call you (if they call you). Send app to both. I have loved NK so far, but UA might be great too... and surely more money.
1. You dont care a bout equipment/routes... then UA/NK no difference.
2. Money: UA better than NK, but if 10k per month are not enough 20k wont be either. My point here is you wont need to get a side job in your days offf at NK (probably also not at retirement). But if you definitely want that extra approx 10% then you have to seek a legacy.
3. QOL: NK is great. Dont know about UA. Ask your friends at both. We hve grat rules and can drop down to zero per month so you can work yourself rhisnmotnh and take it off next.... thats huge IMO.
4: domicile: you sre willing to relocate-ok, but whats your number 1 option.
5 uograde at NK sooner than UA that menas more money sooner--- will it outweight UA payscales... maybe/ maybe not...

at the end eveything comes down to QOL.
IMO there is never a definite answer for this question.... if you lived in ATL I wouldnt hesitate to say that the best airline is DL.... IAH/ewr UA..... FLL JBLU/NK....
To each its own

right now everything is different with covid, but we do have LIM as layover

Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3246414)

no, that’s not what I’m saying. I have had people on here telling me that wide body pilots at legacies don’t make anymore than narrow body pilots.

Originally Posted by Aquaticus (Post 3254583)

our highest earners were narrow body Captains that played the system.

Originally Posted by Kenny (Post 3254962)

Good friend of mine is a CA and loves the life at NK. I’m at UA and enjoy the WB Intl. life. His eyes did almost pop out of his head when we compared 401k’s and company match. Don’t know anything about what NK offers, so only going by what he told me.

Originally Posted by Cyio (Post 3255028)

NK gives 15% per year.

Originally Posted by gatorbird (Post 3255123)

Not until 3/1/22. 14% DC

Originally Posted by DrDHD (Post 3255281)

also don’t forget to mention we are the lowest paid 320 operator by far.

Originally Posted by Morada (Post 3256434)

United just placed an aircraft order to expand by 200 airframe, and Southwest CEO says they are also looking to grow. What do we think the chances are that Spirit will grow beyond the current aircraft order?

Originally Posted by Morada (Post 3256434)

United just placed an aircraft order to expand by 200 airframe, and Southwest CEO says they are also looking to grow. What do we think the chances are that Spirit will grow beyond the current aircraft order?

Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo (Post 3256461)

From the recent conference…

Spirit plans to recover 2019 capacity by the year-end and then continue growing in 2022. It has some exciting plans in terms of fleet strategy and future growth. “We’re going to double over the next five years,” said Christie. “We have around 160 aircraft today and another 160 or so on order. Those aircraft are going to get deployed and we see a massive opportunity for them. As far as the fleet strategy goes, one of the hallmarks of being efficient and low-cost is we can keep a lot of things simple, and that means keeping the aircraft simple.”

My take is plenty of time to grow. Let’s concentrate on the huge task of “doubling over the next 5 years” and try to get that right. That’s 5000 pilots

Originally Posted by Sheg0theD (Post 3256515)

Great read…..

I think we need to focus on the short term issues…

We can’t grow if we don’t have the infrastructure to do so.. aka ramp agents ops personnel etc..


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Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3256518)

In the town hall they said that they are working on that... shouldn’t be a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Sheg0theD (Post 3256526)

Yes, they are working on it.. yet I haven’t seen much of an improvement. Hard to find people who want to work in those conditions for the compensation being offered.


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Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3256518)

In the town hall they said that they are working on that... shouldn’t be a big deal.

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Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo (Post 3256564)

Other things they have been “working on” for years

WiFi
Air Carts that cool in the summer
Single sign on IT
New Uniforms
AQP


I’m sure the ramper issue will be fixed shortly 😏

Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3256579)

ramper issue is a simple fix. Idk why some people are making it into a bigger issue.

btw...The things you mentioned above doesn’t put a stop to our operation. Not having a ground crew will. So paying them more will be top of the priority list. Not sure why that is so hard to understand.

Originally Posted by Morada (Post 3256571)

I understand that we need to get our current staffing issues strait and focus on growing the company with the current order.
The reason I bring up future growth plans is for anyone considering employment at Spirit. From a numbers standpoint if someone is not hired with a seniority number below 3000 they might not ever make captain, or at least it will take a very long time based on 293 aircraft. The optional 50 might be used to replace aircraft coming off lease so there is no way to know what the aircraft count will end at.

So with that being said I wanted to know what everyone’s crystal ball was saying for long term airline growth perspective.

Originally Posted by Morada (Post 3256623)

I wouldn’t say I’m arguing a point per say. But if a candidate is looking at which airline to work at for instances, it would be in their best interest to have an idea of probability on upgrading. At spirit the only way someone will upgrade or move up in seniority is based on growth and at a legacy it’s likely going to come from retirements over growth.
It will be interesting to see how the applicant numbers look once we cross that 3000 pilot mark. Also interesting to see if we start losing people to legacies again like in the past once they realize upgrade might not happen based on current order size.

Originally Posted by Morada (Post 3256623)

I wouldn’t say I’m arguing a point per say. But if a candidate is looking at which airline to work at for instances, it would be in their best interest to have an idea of probability on upgrading. At spirit the only way someone will upgrade or move up in seniority is based on growth and at a legacy it’s likely going to come from retirements over growth.
It will be interesting to see how the applicant numbers look once we cross that 3000 pilot mark. Also interesting to see if we start losing people to legacies again like in the past once they realize upgrade might not happen based on current order size.

Originally Posted by Morada (Post 3256571)

I understand that we need to get our current staffing issues strait and focus on growing the company with the current order.
The reason I bring up future growth plans is for anyone considering employment at Spirit. From a numbers standpoint if someone is not hired with a seniority number below 3000 they might not ever make captain, or at least it will take a very long time based on 293 aircraft. The optional 50 might be used to replace aircraft coming off lease so there is no way to know what the aircraft count will end at.

So with that being said I wanted to know what everyone’s crystal ball was saying for long term airline growth perspective.

Originally Posted by MCDUmanipulator (Post 3256625)

Ramper situation will be fixed as soon as the government covid benefits run out.

Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3256783)

I understand one can make $47,000 per year from Unemployment and Covid. That’s $22 per hour with no more exertion than a weekly trip to the mailbox. Not much of a motivation to go to work and exerting one’s self.

Originally Posted by JulesWinfield (Post 3256799)

Someone who made ~$10/hr before being laid off would make around $200-$300/week on state unemployment. With the $300 federal kicker, they're looking at around $600/wk max, so around $15/hr on the high end, and way less in lots of states. The federal kicker is ending soon, so they'll make around minimum wage. From what I've seen, the states that ended Federal kicker early are still having issues getting unskilled laborers, suggesting that a lot of these workers moved on to better jobs, but there isn't much data yet.

Originally Posted by SSlow (Post 3256822)

Also keep in mind that some people still aren't paying rent due to the eviction moratorium.

unemployment + stimulus money + no rent = more discretionary income

Trust me, once the money dries up and rent is due again there will be plenty of folks looking for work.

Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3256783)

I understand one can make $47,000 per year from Unemployment and Covid. That’s $22 per hour with no more exertion than a weekly trip to the mailbox. Not much of a motivation to go to work and exerting one’s self.

Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3258080)

I just finished a trip and talked to a ramp worker that was very excited to get hired. He said the “work release” program is very beneficial, and he know a lot of his mates starting soon too!

Originally Posted by Aquaticus (Post 3254583)

Just a little bit of insight from UA but traditionally our highest earners were narrow body Captains that played the system. The widebody flying has the prestige and the better hotels. It hoovers the very senior off of the narrow body fleets allowing more "junior" people to do quite well and bid a higher % in their seat. The narrowbody fleets have much smaller trips that you can piecemeal into a very productive schedule that just isn't possible on the widebodies. Living in base allows you to pick up premium pay and work less days for the same pay at pretty much any airline.

The best thing about United is the fleet mixes and different flying. You can experiment and see different types of flying from island hopping Guam, to polar flying, or short and long Europe. The comments about flying with grumpy ex-mil aren't true but we do have militant pro-union people and a more pronounced union than I think I was expecting. I left a LCC to come here and uniteds domestic operation only feels like a small part of the airline. The international and widebody flying is a completely new and fun to learn side of the airline for most of us. We are a small cog in a much bigger machine where we just fly the plane. Flight attendants handle most everything before it comes to us, maintenance/dispatch/scheduling all just work, and any reasonable expense will be reimbursed (aka your not waiting for hotels/vans/meals). I do feel like a professional when I come to work. At smaller airlines I felt that they relied on pilots to chase down and beat the square peg into the round hole to make things come together. Best of luck with your decision!