Personally LTD was #1 reason for a No vote last contract. Thanks for the reply

Reviewing the contract comparison we just got at spirit.

A few more differences are rigs in favor of Spirit
Min days off in favor of Spirit
Frontier guarantee is 75 vs 72 Spirit
Spirit has 3 hour reserve call vs 2 Frontier for short call
14 vs 12 for long call
Reserve automatic 6 hour early release Spirit, Frontier is at “company discretion” for any early release
DH pay favor of Spirit

Or a teenager playing flight sim with nothing better to do.

Quite possibly correct, but the thread actually may be entirely helpful to some people out there who are actually looking at their options between the two companies as well as giving those already employed at both places ideas about things they may want to pursue at the next contract negotiations.

I'm just curious are the min days off, DH pay and rigs at Spirit?

It ain’t always up to date but if you are thinking about moving up to ANY major this is a site you ought to be familiar with:

https://www.aerocrewnews.com/acn-grid/

F9 or NK
 

Min duty period 5 hours
Trip rig is 3.5/1
Duty is 2/1
Deadhead pays 100%
Minimum 13 for days off a month in groups of 4 unless waived.

Thanks but I'm aware of the site.I asked because of what appeared to be discrepancies in the information provided.

Ours is out of date.

Are the min days off and 4 days off different for reserves? What would a typical reserve schedule look like? At my current regional it’s mostly 5-on 2-off. Thanks

F9 or NK
 

4 days off applies to reserves as well. 6 on 4 off usually but varies with bidding preference.


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Odd, but some of your F9 info may be a little inaccurate or out of date. You’ve got us on duty rig and the 13th day off for long months. As far as 4 in a row goes, I’m assuming your junior lineholders have to waive that pretty consistently in order to get enough credit on their schedules to get a line? I don’t think the reserve callout is an apples to apples comparison but yours does sound a little more flexible on paper. In practice I don’t there’s much of a difference. Long calls at F9 are auto-released at 10am on their last day but short call have to call to get released early. Our RAPs are 10.5 hours long for the daytime shifts and 7 for the evening shifts. DH pay is 100% unless forced into a middle seat then it’s 150%. Vacation pays 5 hours per day with some flexibility on moving credit between weeks of vacation. The 125% pay over 82 hours seems to be very popular at F9 as well. You’ve definitely got us on LTD although we had a slight improvement to that recently but still not industry standard.

Bottom line, not trying to make this 1 better than the other, not at all. We both have some ways to improve. But I disagree with your first statement that what I said was old or inaccurate. The only discrepancy I see if the DH, which I got off the comparison. So please let me know the contract wording so we have that info. Our NC needs to have the correct info and know we aren't going in "better than F9" on DH if you guys are getting the above mentioned. Im wanting to see improvements in DH for us. No reason why BFS aren't guaranteed for flights over 3 hours and exit rows are the standard for any DH under 3 hours.

Again, not trying to make it a measuring contest, but I just dont agree with your first statement. Peace and Love

Sure, sure. You were highlighting differences, so I highlighted a couple more and clarified a couple. I’m pretty sure your NC can get whatever info they need from their contacts. Your DH info was out of date. I’m assuming you didn’t post the whole contract comparison so there’s a possibility that more is out of date or inaccurate. So my statement stands: some of your info is out of date. Hopefully DH was it, but contracts are complex documents and amended frequently with LOAs.

And you wont even post the CBA referencing DH? Its not some top secret thing.

You dont need to be some fan boy over this, this isnt about sticking up for your contract. Hell, you guys pretty much copied and pasted our contract for yours, down to the longevity dates.

All the more reason that comparisons like this are helpful since a lot of the contracts and LOAs are behind firewalls - especially for privately held companies. The more we know about the favorable (and unfavorable) parts of each other’s contracts the more educated can be our own negotiating (and voting) decisions - never a bad thing that.

Exactly. Guys will gladly post and gloat their W2s every year buy asking about the specifics of someones CBA is off limits?

F9 or NK
 

You kinda sound like the fan boy. No need to get all hot and bothered.

Figured would get a little chirp chirp from H.E. Pennypacker


(and no mods, dont try and slap me with an infraction, im not outing his name)

Hahaha love the reference.

You’re rather an excitable fellow. I just don’t see the point in posting the actual deadheading language from our CBA. It’s about 3 pages long, as I suspect yours is. Might as well post the whole CBA.

Couldn’t agree more…but hesitant to do anymore comparison since it seems to be a bit of a hot button for some in here.

Just out of curiosity you mention "YX", is that NK terminology for premium trips?

If so, we have that also at F9, ours is 150%+incentive credit compounded by the 125% over 82. When company chooses to add incentive credit which can make things very lucrative here, but not necessarily going to be a massive game changer one way or another.

Yeah, X/Y is a NK thing, one is basically a short call “can you get here now for 200%” (Y) and the other (X) is usually a “we have a trip tomorrow for 200%”. A lot of guys drop their schedules down, list for these lists, and wait by the phone.

I can imagine a 150% on top of a 125% works out well. At that point, it’s darn close to 200% on the hourly rate.

Is it first come first serve or by seniority? If it’s seniority, it sounds a little like our old VJA system but they didn’t split it up by timeframe. It was usually all “get there now” type stuff before going up the junior assignment list.

Our old system was reverse seniority. So junior to senior.

This is much better now, IMO…now it’s seniority based, once you accept a premium trip you drop on the list to a new position based on how many hours you got that trip,
Based on calendar year.

So Jan 1, most senior guy in base gets the first call, if he takes it, say 25 hour trip, he then goes to the bottom of the list. Later that day another trip comes up, so now the #2 guy is the first to get the call. Say it’s a 20 hour trip and he takes it, he then drops to the second from the bottom of the list, ahead of the senior guy at 25 hours but behind the most junior guy with 0 hours

I like this way because it respects seniority while giving everyone a crack. There is strategy you can use with this method as well

That is Correct.

Based on your posts, please go to NK.