Spirit's Unrealistic Assumptions
 

"On April 19, 2022, members of JetBlue leadership and Spirit’s senior management team, along with representatives from Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and Barclays, held a conference call to discuss various financial due diligence items, including Spirit’s five-year plan, Spirit’s revenue and cost drivers, and Spirit’s order book growth and aircraft financing strategy. During the meeting, JetBlue and Spirit discussed Spirit’s financial projections underpinning the transaction with Frontier included in the Spirit Definitive Proxy Statement, focusing on Spirit’s unrealistic assumptions, especially with respect to costs associated with personnel attrition and wage inflation, which did not contemplate any wage increases for team members, including pilots, at a time of high attrition and an anticipated shortage of pilots."

-- Form PREC14A Spirit Airlines, Inc. Filed by: JETBLUE AIRWAYS CORP

Absolutely unbelievable. Oh wait, absolutely believe it. 2013 hire, 10 years left. App in with UAL since this started.

Absolutely believable. You have been here long enough to know this is Spirit. They didnt want to give us raises last time, they won't this time. They dont want to pay until they have ton pay, its that simple. Did anyone think Ted and Bendo would write a fat check tomorrow because we lost 20 FOs last month?

Ive said it over and over, a battle is coming. Just like the contacts before. If we aren't in one step and motivated, it will take 5 years, no doubt.

so what baseline would you like to start from when JCBA negotiations begin? The F9 pay rates or the B6 pay rates?

For the crime of using the term "team members" in a public setting, your MEC should be recalled and fined.

We shouldn't negotiate in public, but I would say that if your baseline is the above mentioned airlines, you need to raise them.

It was a quote from a filing.

I’m not negotiating in public. Simply asking you a question. Simply going to B6 rates would be seen as a raise by the F9 guys - perhaps an inadequate one but still a raise, while our B6 pilot brethren would likely have higher expectations, and would be more likely to demand a greater improvement, at least in my humble opinion. .

You are so far off base if thats even in your universe of a baseline . Honest question..is this your first time in a section 6 contract negotiation? There is a way to go about it, and using the airline that makes less than you and the airline that makes a little more than you as any baseline, isnt the way. Just as F9 would not use NK this time around as any baseline if/when they go into section 6, absent of a JCBA.

Our MEC/NC will NOT be going in with F9 or JBlu as any baseline when it comes to a starting baseline for wages. Baseline will be UALs new rates, and probably AA and DAL new rates, thats the baseline for A320 pilots as of 2022. The company can argue why that isnt the baseline to any NMB mediator, not us.

Ahhh..well in that case, out of an abundance of caution, i'm gonna s.t.f.u.

I agree that the use of "team member" by the MEC would demand punishment, if ever used lol. Any use of the word "Spirit family" is grounds for imprisonment

I sure hope you’re right with this, but I highly doubt this current leadership would reach that high (and it’s not when that big of an ask).

Starting point should include inflation correction (or cost of living or whatever Andy wants to call it) applied to all the rates since the amendable date for any contract we discuss in private. Forget the signing bo-n/g-us.

Wait a second. Do you not remember last round of negotiations for F9/NK? Didn’t frontier and spirit both get new CBAs after UAL/AAL/DAL last round? Frontier pilots basically just got spirit wages. And Spirit went below everyone else who had negotiated before them while in an increasing wage, pilot’s market landscape. But for some reason you think you would start with Big 3 rates as your baseline this time around in section 6? Good luck with that.

and to be clear I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to one up legacies…i am just trying to put some recent negotiating context into your post, which makes it seem like you think UAL+$1 is achievable for a ULCC and that your NC has that in the bag. That’s the point to which I’d say Ted/Biffle/Franke/whatever other puppet masters there are, won’t have any of that.

You eat paint chips as a kid? Did you see the starting ask we had last go around?

When you negotiate a car do you go in and offer $1 less than sticker or $3000 less, so you have room to work? The NMB only requires your ask to be within the "zone of reasonableness"

Last go around SPA ALPA used legacy carriers are our peers and management used Frontier, Allegiant and Sun Country as our peers. Anyone with a brain realizes the end numbers will be somewhere in the middle.

Can’t speak for NK but the f9 top captain rate of $240 an hr was pretty close to UAL top rate at the time of the initial proposal. 3ish years before ratification. Your not asking for UAL plus 20% at that point in time even though you realize their more than likely going to raise it. You have to do a me too if anything. Now we did bump the ask to basically jb rates a month or two after your TA. The problem for us at that point was the company came back and agreed to the $240 with a substantial bonus for the delay and there was zero chance of getting released. Your narrative is lacking a ton of context and timeline.

lol I always thought the word “employee” was sufficient


this country and it’s euphemisms.

A traffic circle device=roundabout

preheat= Heat

Face Coverings= Mask

A medical center=Hospital

What do you mean by ‘this’ country…sounds an awful lot like ‘these’ people…

Triggered- You

Let me guess, cultural appropriation is your hobby? You better bet I’m triggered like a person south side ORD in summer on an early Sunday morning.

Cultural appropriation? Nah, I just lead with my identity like you do. Fight the man ✊🏽

There you go again with fight the ‘man’.

Plus Spirit and Frontier also gave up A LOT to get their respective contracts last round (line bidding dumped in favor of PBS, reserve rules at Spirit gutted, etc). The companies probably made money on those contracts.

Don’t worry. Once you get your blue indoctrination class you’ll learn blue speak:
employees = crewmembers
stews = inflight
pilots = flight ops
gate agents = airport operations (AO)
bag throwers = ground operations (GO)
Coach = core
business class = mint
profit sharing = blue math tricks that equal 0.0%, 0.2% on a good year.
CBA = this document that may or may not be honored
B6ALPA = this organization that you pay a lot of money to that may or may not have your back, depending on their own personal (and national’s) interests.
LOA = a document that you may or may not get a vote on that is likely codifying a giveaway of the above CBA document, but even if you get a vote, you’ll be part of the weakest/low expectation pilot group in the majors, so there’s a good chance you’re giving something away if it makes it to a vote.

welcome aboard if it happens!

The new line is United. Now let’s close the thread before it gets used against us in mediation

this one’s pretty good too.

https://youtu.be/46fOtLfYC4Q

Forbes has the info.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2022/05/19/spirit-airlines-pilots-want-to-know-is-the-airline-eyeing-flat-pay-for-five-years/?sh=7164e5961a83

No way this dude isn't a troll.... Although I did hear about a guy who wore his "blm" TM mask in the flight deck for an entire 4 day. The guy I was talking to still has no idea what he looks like.

Anyway, this thread is about management saying they don't plan on paying us. I'm confused about the context. Were they saying they don't plan on increasing our pay before a merger, which would make sense, or just in general?

Sent from my LE2115 using Tapatalk

It was a five year business projection.

I'm picturing Alan Rickman, "I read the article on Forbes."

Stupid…stupid…stupid. Way to attract.

I see it as a sign that they are planning to drag the integration out as long as possible, and are waiting for the looming recession to solve their retention problem. They probably do assume they can achieve a cost-neutral JCBA in 2-3 years if they forecast a recession. If you believe a recession is likely, and you're thinking of making a move, the question becomes, do you stay and deal with stagnation and managed expectations here, or leave to get in line somewhere else and risk furlough. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a management response to the ALPA letter though.

Its going to have to be another black swan event for there to be furloughs at the legacies. Granted. That could happen. We’ve had 3 in the last 21 years. But they’re retiring so many in the next 5-7 years that I could see hiring slowed down or even paused. I don’t think any of them can afford to go backwards in pilot size any time soon, and if it makes sense for them to do that the rest of the nation and world has probably fallen solidly on its a$$.

”Don't underestimate Joe’s ability to fk things up”
Obama

This here. I have to laugh so often because all this pilots (many new hires🙄) saying oh management has to do something about this... hoping to get a LOAd raise because 20 guys went to UA😂... sure its a problem, but not an improtant one st this point...

The 3% raise they are getting because of the NEA would put a B6 12yr CA at $283.... thats best rate A320 in the USA. Thats not too bad.... i wouldnt mind that being a negotiation baseline.... not that we are going to get their or f9 contract, but I am damn sure they wont downgrade their rates for a merger with us....

Isn’t a Sun Country 12yr captain getting $293 now? I think United is rumored to get $320ish? I’m moving my goal posts.

sun country is in a few years and United hasn’t been voted on yet.