UAL CEO On Spirit & Frontier
 

Not saying I agree. Kirby on Frontier & Spirit. They need to change their business model or they are going out of business.

Discussed a few times throughout video, but most specifically about 30 seconds before the end.

https://stocks.apple.com/AlVxwJILwTqCMNrbBFw8d9A

He’s not wrong

Just the other day, United was ****ting bricks when frontier and NK were in the talks.

GMAFB



Filler

Reminds me of the Office episode when Michael starts the Michael Scott Paper Company. He brings an accountant in to “crunch the numbers”
and Michael can’t understand why they are losing money, “we have the lowest prices in town,” and the accountant replies “and that’s the reason you’re going out of business”

The model needs to change to be competitive. I think all the eggs are currently in a blue basket right now.

SK is a professional gaslighter. This has worked on the United pilot group because they WANT to believe everything is sunshine and rainbows. Turns out investors don’t drink the kool-aid which is why United’s stock is down 10% after this statement by Kirby. That’s a serious haircut after earnings.

The drop was not in any way connected to that statement. Increasing labor costs, fuel costs from Middle East conflict and largest exposure to TLV traffic of any U.S. carrier were the reason for that drop. What has Kirby been incorrect about in the past? Seems like he’s been very good at navigating the changes in the industry.

Im pretty old now.. i remember being around for a few recessions/downturns. Everytime the legacies get hurt the most. When things get bad, people are just not going to be paying $1k-$1,500 for airfare. Many survey's have gone out throughout the years... product was never really the main thing for the consumer during "bad times" it was always lowest airfare. Most people as they lose their jobs and struggle financially will pay $200-$400 for airfare over $1k

Sounds like we have nothing to worry about then. As long as the bad times last forever.

i don’t think he was wrong about any of what he said. Should be the opening argument at the merger trial.

All the more reason we really need this merger to happen.

Haha you really hate everything not delta. As for stocks there is this whole planet outside of aviation going on. Two wars, oil spiking, 10 yr bonds above 5%… tell me you graduated riddle without telling me

I wonder if he still “accidentally” pulls out his pilot certificate at bars when he gets carded and then uses the “Im’ma pilot” line to impress the ladies inside… All while wearing his aviators as he sips his Bud Light.

... and that may be exactly why he made those statements ... he wants the merger to go through.

Bud Light? Is there such a thing as 'woke widgets'?

You won’t catch me ever drinking a Bud Light and who keeps a pilot certificate in their personal wallet. I
tell the bartenders I’m lawyer on overnights (dad is a lawyer so I carry some knowledge on the subject).

In other words you absolutely nailed it on the description of my personal life buddy.

I have a different take on this, in a non politically triggering (on either side) way…. Why buy water, when you can get it for free at the bar?? ;)

Or from a pond

Or from the Liffey…. (Sorry Guinness drinkers….)

This place is D O O M E D.
Ted has 1 foot out the door.
We have an MEC and Negotiationg committee who do a horrible job around here.
We are bottom of the barrel again in pay, and the unions 2 responses are to 1) wait for the bigger bite of the apple and 2) ask the company to give us more money which they gave them the middle finger and laughed.

Moral is all time low around here, attrition has slowed.

Only 3 outcomes left here are 1. JB merger (doubt it will happen). 2. Frontier merger (maybe?) or 3. Chapter 13 and start liquidating planes.

Time to recall this negotionaing committee.

Off to a Jungle Redeye with an guy fresh off OE, both of us making bottom of the barrel coin!

Care to elaborate?

Get some of those sour starbursts we have now, you’ll be smiling soon.

How does recalling the NC change 1,2,or 3?

Frontier is the bottom pay and will always be. They will have to strike for their next contract.

Why would you do a trip like that? Don’t you DTZ then rebuild something more to your liking?

I'd like to point out this guy thinks the company is possibly on the verge of bankruptcy/liquidation and then in the very next sentence he complains that the negotiating committee should be recalled because they didn't extract enough "coin" from that company...

What a joke - God help us if the crazies ever do another coup and take over important parts of Spirit ALPA.

I also disagree with Speedbrake on the merger not happening. I posted this on the B6 forum elaborating why, after reading the pretrial briefs.


"After reading the DOJ and JB Pretrial Brief, I will be surprised if this merger does not get approved through the courts. The DOJ pretty much gave away every single ammo JB needed to shoot them with, from the NEA trial, for the merger trial. The DOJ overplayed it's hand in the NEA and now it is coming back to bite them in the same court.

Some highlights:

- The DOJ defined the relevant market at the route-level. This was pretty much blown out the water in B6 defense by just precedents (several cases going against picking route-level)


- DOJ wants to highlight 51 overlapping routes. In B6 defense, the data is outdated as 6 of those is gone and 36 of the remaining routes is solved by the divestitures. Leaving the DOJ with 9 out of hundreds of routes? Lol Pg 41


- DOJ argues that new entry to the divested gates/slots will not be quick enough to offset increase ticket costs. Even though F9 and Allegiant (and several others) is ready to testify how ready they are to enter, B6 is not required to prove other carriers will enter or the time-frame to which they will enter. They only need to prove the barrier to enter is low. Divestitures help prove this for the difficult markets.Also, they are no requirements for the slot/gate buyers to fly the same routes that NK flies today.


The B6 Pretrail Brief is a good read if you have time."

Oh come on Bluedriver - 75 percent of the time i appreciate the attitude In which you debate things here (don’t necessarily agree with you but the attitude has been respectful) but this is
silly. We have people who love their redeye jungle turns. Just because they are doing a redeye jungle turn with a new kid and they are both making “bottom dollar” doesn’t mean that they would want to drop their redeye. The redeye jungle turns go senior. Inevitably, one or two willl pop up in open time every night. Then, for the folks that can’t hold redeye, jungle turns, it’s like when someone drops their candy. My line this month is not bad. But I will probably drop most of it, and pick up the red eye jungle turns.

Don’t accuse me of being him. To your point that fella was complaining multiple points. I chose to point out that you have a fix for one of the points he chose to complain about. Unless of course he’s on reserve. As pointed out last week he then only has one avenue to travel.

You have to read the poster (imposter) name carefully... That comment wasn't from the REAL Bluedriver... :).

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OUCH. That doesn't sound good.

This really wasn't true for the last recession, the biggest in aviation history. The large companies didn't do any worse, and in fact recovered faster and better than the ULCCs/LCCs.

The industry has changed, the airlines have changed. The bottom of the industry is clearly the weakest, both in good times and possibly now in the bad times.

hahaha oh yeah - shoot! You two and your one letter difference names. I think you’re the one that I appreciate 75 percent of the time, or maybe now it’s the two of you 37.5 percent each? Now I have no idea 😂😂😂

Similar, but interesting analysis here:

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/reports/us-legacy-airlines-enjoy-a-heyday-while-ulccs-face-margin-pressure-660984

Seems obvious now that they said it, but when an industry faces numerous constraints (shortage of ATC, pilots, airplanes), high margin businesses will do much better than high volume businesses.

In normal times, it may not really matter if you sell 10 widgets at $10 profit, or 100 widgets at $1 profit, but if you’re only able to make a fraction of those widgets, the low cost/high volume model doesn’t work.

Many of the issues plaguing Spirit cost very little to fix and have been a main point of contention with passengers; service.

Nobody shows up to a Spirit flight expecting 5 star service, but we treat our passengers like crap far too often:

FA having conversations with themselves during boarding, texting, literally sitting in the front seats.

No gate agents to answer questions because the one we have assigned to the flight it standing over the FAs in the plane, waiting to allow boarding.

Attitude. Just way too much attitude from front line employees; no smiles, just attitude.

Still filthy planes. Mainly because there is no oversight or standards on what constitutes a plane that’s clean and ready for passengers. Many of our lavs look like music festival porta potty, and that’s after they “clean it.”

10000% couldn’t have said it better.

yup! It takes ZERO effort to smile. And slightly more than that to smile and be helpful. What a difference those two small things would make.

Well said. All the easy fixes would come from an attentive management group. Unfortunately, seems like our management left the building at the end of 2022. Their silence has been deafening. If this merger fails to close, it will get worse as many current employees seek another employer

My personal favorite after n JS'ing on a Spirit flight once was gate agent showing up at podium 30mins prior to departure, announcing that there is "something wrong with the airplane, y'all" and then promptly excusing herself behind the gate door for the next 30mins while everyone is at gate wondering if the flight is cancelled, delayed, what did she just say, etc.....

Also reminds me of the Ebola (highly contagious) scare of the Obama years and it was disclosed that an Ebola infected nurse had flown to a wedding aboard a Frontier plane, but it was not disclosed until two days later. Frontier put out a public announcement that proclaimed, "no fear public, EVERY Frontier plane is thoroughly cleaned after each leg so any potential Ebola virus had surely been eradicated"...... anyone in the industry was thinking, sure!

That’s what happens when everyone and everything is contracted out to the low bidder.

In n Out sells cheap burgers but still manages to pay more for their front line employees because they know it matters to the product and the profitability. Spirit steps over dollars to save dimes. There is zero standards and oversight on our front line employees. We cant even get gate agents to wear a uniform all the time.