they got their extra few years. Remember the “lost decade” (age 65) yeah, they have 5 extra years now, they don’t need another 2. Sorry. I said what I said.

My apologies for that post. Gave him some time off.

Sadly, there is always the 0.1%. The other 99.9% of us are all pulling for y'all, and hope for nothing but the best for your pilot group.

thank you! appreciate you and Rick for putting the few apparent bullies in the corner for a bit. That negativity is just not needed at the moment

Amen! Then Amen again!

ALPA just adopted a new strategic plan at the BOD in Chicago and they resoundingly approved the current stance of no changes to the Age 65 rule.

I'd think that person would be against age 67 since the mandatory retirements are driving a significant portion of the legacy airline hiring for the time being.

Best of luck.
 

I watched this happen at Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am, Midway, and ATA. If you are somewhat Junior, take anything you can get. Cargo carriers are not as adversely effected as the passenger carriers. I wish you all the very best your ALPA brother, L

Anything being mentioned yet on Work Rule Changes, Loss of Vacation, Compensation Adjustments, more staffing cutbacks, etc.
I got whacked seriously many years ago in a Chapter 11 which later became a Seven.

I wish everyone at Spirit the very best!
I don't wish this type event on anyone!

no, no mention of any work rule changes. As a matter of fact, they specifically mentioned that no changes would be made to pay or benefits due to this filing.

I wouldn't put too much stock in what they stated. Quite the opposite actually, I fully expect them to seek changes eventually. I would love to be wrong.

I agree I think Ted andn Bendo might ask, but they can seek all they want, aint happening. They can try to get a judge to force it, doubt it since the terms have already been agreed to before court. Its what, "We have an agreement with our largest bondholders on a deal with debt, they are giving us more money, we have no issue paying our other vendors so they wont be involved, but we want you to force an 1113 on the pilots because we just think it should happen"

Furthermore, the entire point of this pre arranged Ch11 is to get through it quickly. Bond holders dont plan on holding onto this Spirit equity for longer than they have to, get through CH11 and then they can make their next move.

What’s the next move?

They technically don't even have to get through ch11 if a temping buyout comes along they can sell during bankruptcy court no?

ill take what they say started and leave it at that. Anything else would be speculation, and once I start speculating then the sky is the limit on what I can imagine happening. We’ve all been living this mess of bad news after bad news after bad news for a bit now. At the moment, I’m taking this as a touch of good news and am going to enjoy a slight feeling of hope for just a little bit.

Bondholders must decide to sell or IPO the new entity is their next move.

2 airlines that nobody likes to fly will merge to make one that people will want to I guess. Or Spirit will shrink and cut costs so they can actually be profitable. It will be interesting to see if there really is a buyout. Technically that is anti consumer as the JetBlue merger so what was the point of not allowing the JB merger in the first place.

There will be no changes to your contract because the market for pilots is still strong and hiring will be going gangbusters again in 2025. A hobbled carrier with an uncertain future would only hasten it’s demise if tried to get cheap with labor that has options.

I don’t think this is accurate at all. There will always be some CFI somewhere who will take the Job. Attrition will always be a thing. The COVID hiring spree is over.

Yeah basically. The problem for NK currently is revenue and debt obligations. A few months ago NK (and F9) made some pretty dramatic overhauls to the product offerings in an effort to increase the quality of the product and revenue. NK looks like they are going to continue to make the full transition to a more traditional carrier as part of the BK plan. Which to your second point is why it was pointless to block the NK/B6 merger in the first place. Whatever entity emerges from BK and whoever it emerges with will not be a ULCC.

I think you’re correct in this case. There is already an agreed upon plan of reorganization and they just need the judge to approve it. Normally in Ch11 there would be an exclusivity period of 120 days where execs/creditors can submit a POR. After that point it would be open to 3rd parties.

This. Plus the fact that Ch.11 is not a carte blanche for management to go scorched earth on labor. Legally the court is supposed to adjust CBA's only as necessary, to match the competitive environment. The CBA is already on the lower end of the major airline spectrum, unless management can make the case that their business niche is something else.

I think managers got burned with operational and strategic disruptions cause by attrition and recruiting challenges, especially the loss of experienced PIC's and instructors who are not easily replaced. While hiring has slowed, the pilots they really need to retain are also the most attractive to UAL, which recently learned it's own hard lessons about pilot experience. They'll probably remember that for a while.

Yes. It can happen during Ch.11, or they might have had it arranged before filing Ch.11. If everyone agrees and their ducks are lined up the judge can quickly rubber stamp the whole thing.

A monkey wrench (sorry Chimpy) might be if not all creditors agree on their cut, then the court wil have to do some court stuff.

While I personally am absolutely not working a day beyond 65, my extra five years were in the right seat of an RJ. Back when it didn't pay $150K. I'm not the only one. Just sayin.

You can only hire so many CFI’s, low time FOs, before you have to start hiring street captains. It’s slowed down yes, it’s still far easier than it’s ever been otherwise you would have been at Ual for 10 years now instead of less than a year.

So were mine, I was at $33.50/hr

At the current rates, you’ve made more than enough to compensate your “loss”. We all have. None of us ever dreamed we’d be making 4-600k a year this easy.

But like most millennials you still whine, like somebody owes you something. The amount we all have is insane and an incredible blessing.

There, I said it.

edit: Honestly look around the world and tell me how tough we have it. This is not about thinking we should be working for free, far from it.

UAL is hiring sub 1,000 this year. Delta, around 1,000, AA? United hired north of 2,000 for the last 2.5 years, the forecast is much lower due to Boeing. NK has a few hundred on the street, The Regionals are no longer short staffed. I absolutely do not think Old Lyin Ted is concerned with Attrition. That is my only point. I dont think Pilot retention is something they currently care about.

This year, that was an aircraft problem. Regionals are still offering bonuses. I agree with you about Ted.

I work for American. I was just showing support and discussing.

Same here. How is another two years going to fix that?

What hard lessons were learned about pilot experience at UAL?

Hard. lol. Pun intended.

A lie gets halfway around the world while truth can even put on its boots.
People repeat the same stuff over and over again. Most "UA incidents" that media spread, had experienced crew/ crew member. The one's that actually qualified as "incident", have the NTSB report that anyone can read, with crew qualifications / hours. Yet we keep repeating the same stuff. Much like DEI hiring. Look at the class photos.

I agree with the quote listed here.
It almost never stays the same.

Part of the negotitions with the creditors usually includes this as part of the plan.
My guess is they aren't ready to "drop the bomb" just yet.

I have a relative at Spirit that flies as Captain.
My guess is he will be lowered to F/O shortly, and then with whatever pay reductions, insurance reductions, 401k contribution reductions or stoppages, etc. he will be reciving less than 1/2 of what he was receiving just a few weeks ago!

Again, good luck everyone.
I would never ask this to happen to anyone!!!

Pure conjecture and fear mongering

We could also get nuked by Russia tomorrow and all of our careers get dropped to zero

If you look into all the math and strategy regarding retirement, two years could make all the difference, especially at major airline pay.

There are other factors, but the biggies are...

1. Two years additional savings.
2. Two FEWER years in which you need to tap your investments.
3. Delay taking SS two years from when it would otherwise be prudent.

So two years roughly = four years, plus SS impact.

Anyway you can look into the math and see for youself. I'd recommend anybody much over age 35 do that... you might find you can bang out much earlier than you thought (especially at our income levels).

Unfortunately RU is actually threatening that today, so that's maybe not a good eexample right now.

??? I'm not whining, and I said I'm not working past 65. I'm certainly not a millenial.

I'm saying there are others who lived my experience who might be less fortunate. I've got a mil pension, several homes, and an original issue wife. Take away some of that and the math get's harder.

Perhaps SSlow, however, I've been at 3, 121 carriers, and this is how is went everytime.
As they say, history repeats itself!

Might be if they're very short-sighted. Retirements continue, and hiring will have to ramp back up for that eventually, likely in the next 1-2 years.

Some folks have said that ULCC's can just adopt the regional model, hire CFI's and endless revolving door. The problem with that is your CA's now have lower longevity, are younger, fewer family entanglements, and more likely to bail for legacies.

Regional model didn't fair well at all for a few years, but the regionals got propped up by the legacies who supported higher wages and did things like meter flow and hiring from affiliated regionals. LCC's won't be getting that kind of help :rolleyes: