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I just used 100k salary because the numbers are easier. Just showing that the 5% 401k cut is on top of the 15% pay reduction. Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker
It’s good to crunch the numbers but supposedly it’s 100 million. The only thing that really matters is snap back and any ability to make whole. If that language exists it really doesn’t matter what happens in the end as far as management at any other carrier being able to use this concession as a measuring stick in furniture negotiations. Even if that language doesn’t exist it’s hard for management to point to a bankrupt contract in any potential mediation. Making what master of puppets said pretty much irrelevant,
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Originally Posted by JulesWinfield
I just used 100k salary because the numbers are easier. Just showing that the 5% 401k cut is on top of the 15% pay reduction.
understood.
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filler…
Originally Posted by LongHornFlyer
Correctfiller…
Let the judge impose the cuts. do not agree to anything. they want concessions for period of time which is probably at least 4 years or so. If the judge imposes it that becomes amendable the day Spirit exits Ch11.
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Funny, not funny. You should see the negotiating update from F9 this week saying exactly the opposite. They (company) claim they were DIRECTED by the NMB to draw comparisons to a couple startup airlines, a couple airlines with ages old contracts, and a bankrupt airlineOriginally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker
…it’s hard for management to point to a bankrupt contract in any potential mediation. Making what master of puppets said pretty much irrelevant,
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it’s not irrelevant because when things go down hill there is now a precedent. One airline had its pensions gutted in bankruptcy and then they all did. One airline gave up scope and they all did. So if you give up DC then we will all loose it.Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker
It’s good to crunch the numbers but supposedly it’s 100 million. The only thing that really matters is snap back and any ability to make whole. If that language exists it really doesn’t matter what happens in the end as far as management at any other carrier being able to use this concession as a measuring stick in furniture negotiations. Even if that language doesn’t exist it’s hard for management to point to a bankrupt contract in any potential mediation. Making what master of puppets said pretty much irrelevant,
the precedent isn’t just set on the way up. If Frontier and Jet Blue go bankrupt it will be the Spirit template they will follow as fellow ALPA carriers.
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the precedent isn’t just set on the way up. If Frontier and Jet Blue go bankrupt it will be the Spirit template they will follow as fellow ALPA carriers.
Correct. There’s a bankruptcy precedent. One airline had a pension gutted in bankruptcy and others followed in bankruptcy. Cal never gave up a pension until they were outnumbered by new hires. That’s the part you left out. Just stay out and you won’t have to worry about it. Especially if there’s make whole language. We f9 ended up with UAL bankruptcy pay rates in bankruptcy so I’m well aware.Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
it’s not irrelevant because when things go down hill there is now a precedent. One airline had its pensions gutted in bankruptcy and then they all did. One airline gave up scope and they all did. So if you give up DC then we will all loose it.the precedent isn’t just set on the way up. If Frontier and Jet Blue go bankrupt it will be the Spirit template they will follow as fellow ALPA carriers.
I'm not really looking to go tit for tat on pattern bargaining. Just looking at the fact that a contract in bankruptcy is viewed completely different than one that’s not. By everyone involved in negotiations. Management, union, nmb, ect…
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It’s only a 20% reduction that’s better than losing everything like the majority of the Furloughed Pilot group Originally Posted by Freds Ex
Trimming pilot payroll by 19% isn’t going to solve anything. Just gives the creditors slightly more.
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I'm not really looking to go tit for tat on pattern bargaining. Just looking at the fact that a contract in bankruptcy is viewed completely different than one that’s not. By everyone involved in negotiations. Management, union, nmb, ect…
that’s why I ask if there is a snap up in there. At United we gave huge concessions for COVID in return we got a SNAP back AND a raise on top of that. Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker
Correct. There’s a bankruptcy precedent. One airline had a pension gutted in bankruptcy and others followed in bankruptcy. Cal never gave up a pension until they were outnumbered by new hires. That’s the part you left out. Just stay out and you won’t have to worry about it. Especially if there’s make whole language. We f9 ended up with UAL bankruptcy pay rates in bankruptcy so I’m well aware.I'm not really looking to go tit for tat on pattern bargaining. Just looking at the fact that a contract in bankruptcy is viewed completely different than one that’s not. By everyone involved in negotiations. Management, union, nmb, ect…
if in this concession there is language that states a snap back to today’s rates and a gurantee for more money at certain profit triggers post bankruptcy. Then Spirit pilots could’ve in a good spot here.
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if in this concession there is language that states a snap back to today’s rates and a gurantee for more money at certain profit triggers post bankruptcy. Then Spirit pilots could’ve in a good spot here.
Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
that’s why I ask if there is a snap up in there. At United we gave huge concessions for COVID in return we got a SNAP back AND a raise on top of that.if in this concession there is language that states a snap back to today’s rates and a gurantee for more money at certain profit triggers post bankruptcy. Then Spirit pilots could’ve in a good spot here.
Yes. Completely agree and hoping that’s what happened. I’m out as I’m starting to feel like I’m hijacking.
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Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker
Yes. Completely agree and hoping that’s what happened. I’m out as I’m starting to feel like I’m hijacking.
kind of hard to hijack a thread they don’t want to participate in…..
