115 pilot is what one of the reps told me

do you know march attrition by any chance?

167 for March and 80 so far for April

Had application status change to “Under Review” on 4/1. Anyone else have any traction since submitting?

80 in 5 days?

Maybe he's including people who in March said they would leave in April. So its their known exit date, not necessarily when they gave notice. That makes more sense because 80 in 5 days is a lot.

Right, the more coherent way I think about it is add two weeks to today, so by April 19th 80 people have resigned with two weeks notice. But of course this number may have been from April 1st or 2nd, which keeps us on track to 160ish a month..

Jeez 160 a month is incredibly high. Can they sustain that with the reduced training capacity?

783 pilots in the last 2 quarters.

Spirit’s financial reports use to list ‘juniority’ as a cost savings. I think they’d prefer it this way and it allows them to control staffing as they shrink.

It seems that only makes sense in the regional context, where people stick around for a while, upgrade and build PIC for the majors.

If the top 2/3 of the list in on 12 year scale, I don't know that a lot of training churn at the bottom is worth the cost.

Mine changed to under review as well on 4/2 but nothing else

It’s not, in fact after Covid the newhire FO attrition was a huge problem for Spirit and other LCCs. The legacy’s were gutting all the LCCs from the bottom. Having to retrain 1500 hr cfis gets costly. Except this time it’s retrain 1500 hr industry burnouts.

You two are a couple of donkeys for applying to this hell hole.

The legacy airlines aren’t hiring from the bottom of the ULCC lists as much now.

From Spirit’s filing:
“Labor costs are projected to be the Reorganized Debtors’ largest expense. The Debtors assume expenses of $0.8 billion in fiscal year 2026 and ending at $0.8 billion in fiscal year 2030. Labor volume increases are expected to be mainly mitigated by average seniority reductions as the company resumes growth following the restructuring period.”

This made me laugh as it’s spot on!

They still are. 90% of the pilots leaving F9 are FOs with 3 years on property or less.

The seniors who might be inclined to leave probably already did. Those remaining are probably dug in pretty hard.

I have no doubt about the attrition, however they are not going to legacies in mass. Right now they seem to be taking mostly CAs. Sure a small few low time FOs are getting on but to say 90% of F9 FOs under three years are leaving to legacies isn’t true. Most probably go back to a regional where they view it as an opportunity to get some PIC time to move on.

The berry is a tool but no. No Frontier FO goes to a regional. I have never even heard of a single one doing that. They are going to legacies and fast.

Lol this is called fake news. I know at least 5 that went back to a regional, it’s the same with NK FOs. I do know a few that had interviews and got turned down than went back to a regional. In the last year, only one guy who I would consider a true low time FO has gotten on at a legacy. In the last year CAs have flooded the legacy job market. Low time FOs just aren’t competitive right now which is historically normal. What happened after Covid with the hiring will most likely never happen again. Stop lying…

There is zero reason for me to lie about this. Perhaps some NK did but NK and Frontier are in completely different positions.

I can say first and last names of everybody in my base, where they went, and the day they left but that wouldn’t be very wise on this site now would it? I can tell you that 3% of the captains and 9% of the FOs in my base left this year and they have all gone a legacy. But ya, fake news. You sure got me cornered there.

Yup. I haven’t flown with a single fo in the past few years with an app in at a regional.

My sim partner from F9 new hire left at the 1.5 year mark. Was a prior RJ guy but no PIC time. I recently got a legacy CJO under 3000 TT.. Again no PIC time, first airline, less than 2 years on property. A majority of our attrition airline wide (probably 65-70%) are FOs, and I'd guess 90% of them (or more) have 0 PIC time.

Nobody at F9 is going to a regional unless they were asked to resign in lieu of termination.

Literally no one gives a flying **** what a Frontier pilot is doing. This is an NK sub.

Why are the CA's not leaving? Their own choice?

pride. Can’t go back slinging gear for your FO that left years ago and is a CA already!

Money. Golden handcuffs.

Also some just dont want to walk away from their longevity. Is what it is.

LOL, maybe because you reach an age or some other point where you just don’t give a ******** about this career anymore. Been a long time since I’ve posted here. Imagine my surprise that the same ol’ people…even ones who have moved on are still here circulating the toxic nonsense. Please do yourselves a favor and get a life. Thx

Mostly QoL of being a captain in base at a major airline already. A huge majority of CAs I've ever flown with at F9 have no intention to leave, nor have their apps out. Many of them stopped applying when they got the CA seat in-base. Some can't afford it (literally), some don't want to take the paycut, many think they're "too old" despite only being 38-44 years in age.. The list goes on. Each have their own reasons.

The captains I tend to see leaving are the brand new, <3-3.5 years on property CAs who are still 28-33 years in age, or the very senior that are just fed up with the company and want to make the most of what's left ahead in their career.

FOs have nothing to lose - our year 3 pay is only ~1-3$ more per hour than a legacy's year 1 pay..and the difference is likely made up with the soft pay opportunities those airlines have. For many of us it's a no brainer to leave.

42 year old 12 year NK CA here.

There are no guarantees in this career.

The recent experience post covid has been anomalous. Maybe that continues, maybe it doesn't.

There is a possible reality where jet A stays elevated. Growth plans get revised. Maybe even furloughs or serious stagnation for 10+ years.

Some who stayed were weighing the odds.

That said, its getting harder and harder to ride it out.

As someone who hadn't applied anywhere.... over the last few weeks I have been filling out apps.

Who knows what the right move is, but this company has given us every reason to move on over the last 5 years and it looks like its more of the same going forward.

Some of us just took a while to get to the conclusion that the smart (?) ones did years earlier. There is no faith left.

Its time to get out.

I think you’re being smart. Still a young guy with 20+ years to give. You will see a bigger retirement, better QOL, and be able to sleep better not having to wonder. Best of luck to you. With your qualifications, you will get picked up quickly. Just stay humble.

I am humble. Don't expect much.

Its funny how often other airline pilots assume its pride. Its nothing of the sort. When you tell non pilots the situation they cant believe it. Go tell a MD or JD that their employer is done so you need to start over as an intern with a 28 year old as your boss. Your 20 years counts for little. Insane.

Whatever. It is what it is.

In reality, once you get over emotion, its simply a probabilistic weighted outcome concerning QOL (pay/schedule).

That's it.

Its really funny to see so many assuming the go go years of the post covid era will continue.

For those of us around a while, we know this industry is HARSH.

There are thousands of pilots who are junior to themselves. There is zero guarantee this wont repeat. That's why a lot of us waited. I had logbooks up to date, rec letters ready, zero skeletons in the closet, etc etc. I waited. Because its just not a given that the rosey outlook of 30K pilots at united and everything continuing for the next 5 years just as the last 5 year have gone is far from a given.

That said, at this point, between the laughable post bankruptcy "plan" submitted to the court, which was already hard to beleive, pre Jet A doubling, and the recent moves for more aircraft sales and silent base closures (not back filling resignations)....im mean, at this point staying is a Hail Mary. Unlesss you are 60+ and live in FLL, i have a really really hard time underwriting a better outcome than GTFO.

SW. UAL. DAL. AL.
All submitted last 30 days.

Sorry to say, but its time, at least for me, to pull the chute. Hopefully it works out.

Bout sums it up. I think anyone that believes that new bankruptcy exit plan is possible is delusional. And that was before the fuel spike. Fuel might be a temporary problem but Spirit is living in the now and it’s a very real problem that can be sustained for long.

Maybe a merger of necessity comes out of it but with the who? Another company that is will be bankrupt in the near future?

Don't be a tool. It was a serious question *specifically* in response to a post that was *specifically* about Frontier. I don't know what's going on over there and was curious. I recognize people have reasons for staying, was just wondering what it was at F9.

Days off. Number and control of those days off that come with seniority. I would give up 16 weeks of higher credit vac from now till retirement at 60. I can’t be unstacked ever. I’m not tied to a res grid. Reassignment is difficult under current language. Fmla doesn’t apply first year when you start over. I could retire today financially. I’m sure there’s more but that’s the jest. For me personally as a top captain but as others have said it’s a no brainer for 90 plus %.

Leaving is not without risk. Assuming everything lines up and there is not economic rollbacks or overstaffing issues. leaving commits you to chasing bases and types for another few years at a minimum. It's fine for the young guns. Some of us have been shuffling around bases for 15-20 years at different jobs on different equipment and the money is not as important as the stability. After all what good does the money do you if you have no one to enjoy it with? I have moved about 16 times in the last 15 years. It was good fun at first, but as the years wear on it gets old. an extra 100k/yr is not going to move the needle for me on that one.

For ****s sake, enough with the F9 **** in here. It’s an NK sub. Stick to the message please.

I was in your spot 2 years ago, same age and 10+ years at NK. It wasn't a great feeling having to fill out apps again, but I decided to leave after the JB merger failed. It's also strange having to fly with CA who are 10+ years younger than me. Now I get to drive to work and on track to make almost as much as what I was making as a 10 year NK CA. It takes some hustle and playing the game every month, but my QOL is much better.

Seems like a smart but painful move. Hopefully it works out for the best.