New Base negotiations
 

Im curious to know how many current FO's on Property and Captains would bid for a position in Portland , so I am creating a poll.

As a fairly new FO on property, I am worried about the fact that I along with many of my other peers, will get shipped to Portland. While I agree with some that this move for the company may be a positive one in terms of growth, I feel that if it is not handled correctly, some of us may be severely affected by this. Many of us have moved our entire families to Minneapolis to live and work for this company.

While it is common practice for many other airlines to open and close bases around the country, as we all know this is a first for Sun Country. The current contract has no protections for pilots in terms of involuntary displacements, commuter clauses etc.

I think we can all agree that the major concern for most pilots is involuntary displacement, especially for the junior captains. I know the activity in this thread for Sun Country is not very active, so please if you can ask fellow pilots to join in or at least vote here or on another platform so we can get some early idea of how many would take up the offer, that would help get an idea.

I’m starting in March and would love to be PDX based.

Just one vote for you.

See you in class Beech!

Expanding the rental house search to Portland...

Looking forward to it 3Bear!

Rumor going around of home basing? Any legs to that or bad rumor. It’s from AeroCrewNews and they’re usually pretty close

Take a look at Allegiant, that most likely is your answer.

No!
Filler

Sounded like 16 crews to be based at PDX initially (the plan anyways). Does anyone know if MSP is shrinking by 16 crews or is this growth on top of current staffing levels??

Thanks

According to the OPS teleconference today, it is a shrinkage in MSP base.

Any updates/rumors from yesterday’s new base talks between the company and the union ??

Maybe it got delayed so they can focus on just running the operation through these snow events the past few days??

I’m guessing it ends up going to arbitration but who knows??

If they are planning on displacing to new bases out of MSP good luck without sweeting the pot.

Heard SWA hiring window is open :))

I doubt there will be any need to displace anyone out of MSP for PDX. I think between new hires and volunteers it will fill. Now the third base, whatever it may be, could be a concern.
I forsee significant stagnation in MSP, should one choose to stay, as we have a young overall CAPT group.

MEC Negotiation Update
 

The NC met Thursday with the Company Negotiating Team, led by COO Old Uncle Jinglepants. The proposals put forth by the Company Negotiating Team are extremely troubling.
The Company proposals included:

Elimination of "numbered positions" for Management, and Pilots on Leave (Section 24.A.3.c)
Elimination of some of our furlough protections. (Section 24.A.3.b and 24.A.4)
Elimination of the requirement to fill all vacancies published in a Permanent Position Bulletin (Section 24.D.c.(3))
Elimination of pay and credit for short notice vacancy awards. (Section 24.E.6)
Elimination of bidding choices by requiring electronic bidding through e-crew (Section 24.C.4)
Requiring Pilots to drop awarded vacation anytime a Pilot is Displaced
Imposing a new provision demanding Temporary Duty Assignments (TDY) without any premium or incentive. (This is a demand for a new contract provision)
Adding the ability to force Reserves to sit Reserve out of their assigned base (New language)
Proposed a Moving stipend that falls far short of our peer group and your reasonable expectations. (New Section 6)
In many instances the Company deleted entire subsections of our contract without any suggested replacement language or compensation for the lost contractual protections.

Each of these changes would have a large and negative impact on Pilot pay, and quality of life. We also believe that these changes would significantly impact the number of Pilot jobs available at Sun Country Airlines in the future.

Many of the changes proposed by the Company at these negotiations are the same changes sought by the Company at our October NMB-facilitated contract discussions. At that time the MEC rejected these same proposals because there was insufficient value offered by the Company for the changes, yet, these same changes now appear with zero value offered. The Company now appears to be demanding changes that are concessionary and would lead to less Pilot choice and lower quality of life.

The NC is working closely with the MEC. The MEC is interested in receiving your feedback on these important developments. The next meeting with the Company is scheduled for Tuesday Feb 26th.

Stay tuned, Stay Unified, and Fly Safe.

Spanjers wants new bases and concessions on the current agreement??

“You can not be serious!!”

Is that even good faith negotiating in this current pilot market??

Must be driving this bus towards arbitration knowing the odds are probably on their side with an arbitrator.

I thought I heard Spanjers is on his way out “retiring”. Must be a nice bonus in it for him on his way out the door if he can pull this off??

I’m Worried the NC will just get scales similar to industry standard for LCC and the company gets the contract they want without paying more than industry standard.

I'm an FO for a regional living in PDX and was wondering how serious the PDX base rumors are or if they are a done deal. Also what are the chances if getting PDX out of training at Sun Country and if it will be junior for the time being tell it opens.

As you can see by the subject of this thread the company has told the union they want to open a PDX base on July 1st. We have a clause in our contract which spells out the steps which need to be taken by the company and the union to negotiate the terms by which a new base is opened, operated and closed. It sets out a timeline to complete said negotiations which are subject to binding arbitration. We are in the initial stages of those negotiations.

The company said they want 32 crews in PDX. I'm sure we have a few current FO's on property who will bid it, but my guess is it will be filled mostly with new hires.

Best not create confusion, there is no negotiation of pay happening. Lower than standard rates to stay the same for the foreseeable future. The negotiating communication posted above makes clear all the concessions the company claims to need to open a PDX base. So, as it appears the company plans to "get the contract they want" and leave the contract some 35% short of industry standard.

Is there any language about bidding bases or displacements/base closures in the current contract, or is that all currently under negotiation?

All of that is part of the negotiations. Sunny never saw the need for any new bases in the past and our contract reflects that.

Any updates on negotiations or pdx?

No news here in the training house.

Speaking of the training house, I seem to remember no hotel during training. Is/was that accurate, and if so, is it still accurate?

Yes, still accurate.
My understanding also is that the training contract is no longer in play. I believe this came out recently in a union update.

Good Luck,

You guys are both correct. Provide your own housing for training. And there is no more training contract.

There is pay to be had during training, though, right? Maybe even per diem to take the edge off of living in a tent?

Yes, paid. No perdiem.

There are some nice pilot houses available where you get your own bedroom and share the rest of the house with 4 other pilots for around $500 per month. Much cheaper than hotels for the 2 months of training.

This is true! I paid $200 per month a few years ago...with garage!

Is there any indication that no lodging for training will be addressed in the new base negotiations as well as new pay rates, or will that be done during 2020 and beyond when the contract expires.

Neither training hotels nor an overall pay increase have been part of the PDX base negotiations per the union communications.

That’s not exactly accurate. The communications have emphasized that they aren’t yet sharing what’s being discussed to maintain the integrity of the negotiating process. So anything could be on the table. Although I doubt it would be pay increases. More likely to be things making commuting a more viable option for people than it is currently.

More likely this will go to arbitration, so it’s wait and see

Any updates on PDX?

Still discussing. Most likely will go to arbitration with a ruling on
~22 May.
Rumor has it, company will start the base July 1, ruling or no ruling!

Could get interesting? How does the pilot group feel about it? Any real uproar?

I suppose it depends on your seniority, whether you are already commuting and/or what your longer term goals are. Difficult to predict the uproar...
Anything now is purely speculation.

I think PDX base will probably fall through. Too many contract concessions wanted from the company side and if they don't get them in arbitration, the base is to small to be efficient.

The PDX base is dead. The company didn't get what they wanted....they took their toys and went home.

Methinks contract negotiations are going to be equally ridiculous and wasteful. Good. I needed some motivation to get my apps updated.

Damn if I'm good at one thing it's finding one dumpster fire after another...