Demoman

Either that or pilots not willing to gamble with their careers and future will go elsewhere.

RedBeardedPilot

Thanks. Just 1 class a month then? How many people in a class usually?

Pull and Rotate

Class sizes vary from 6-10 usually.

Flyonwall

Well they start with 10 then end up with 6.

flysooner9

Got an invite to interview today. Any chance of Improvements down the road after Spirits contract? Is suncountry commuter friendly at all?

Currently have offers for DEC at several regionals but a big boy type rating would be nice to have.

armypilot

WoooHooo!!! Just got an invite to interview. Super excited for the opportunity!

beech1980

The tone and message has been shifting to no changes. We can negotiate in 2020 when contract becomes amendable....

Not commuter friendly at all. Reserve is basically 5 on 2 off. Junior lines are lots of 5 day trips with 2-3 days off in between.

The 737 type might give you a leg up for Southwest. Sun Country is basically a training center for them now.

Attrition is getting higher every quarter. Go to spirit. Much better off. Unless you live within an hour of MSP it’s not that great for anyone.

When you do upgrade plan on reserve for a long time and probably TDY’ing all over the world with their new plans...

After the México fiasco. Change to ULCC. this place lost its luster that it had.

PiperPower

I agree with Beech to an extent, but at the same time I wanna give a different opinion - I'm pretty optimistic. As I understand it, SY just had the most profitable quarter in the history of the airline. Yes, it's an absolute shame that some of the changes are happening.

In reality though, this pilot group would NEVER have been paid industry standard wages if we continued with the previous ownership and management... And to be completely frank - I don't know how much longer the airline would have even been sustainable in its previous state.

Maybe I'm naive, but the pilot group will get paid. A multi-billion dollar investment group now owns the airline... how anyone can think we're now WORSE off than before boggles my mind.

beech1980

Yes the airline is now and probably will be more profitable than it ever has been. The new ownership probably did save the airline from being dissolved.
Although....

This 1/4 TRILLION DOLLAR hedge fund has zero desire in ever paying the pilots a penny more than the contract pays. They have said they have a 5 year plan. The contract is amendable Nov 2020. Look at what this company and all these other hedge funds do. They make billions, not the labor force.

Their plan is 2022 then nothing... They will drag out Negotiatings for two years. If they get squeezed by the NMB or union they will sell it.

So are we worse off? It depends what magic 8 ball you are looking at. If you think Sun Country will get an amendable contract before 2020. You are probably wrong. Will it grow and possibly buy another airline? Maybe. Will it grow and be sold to another airline? Maybe. Only time will tell.
This is not the time to have a pilot training contract. Work rules that are decades old and not current with other airlines contracts. Well Below industry average pay rates and retirements, confrontational middle management. The list goes on and on. Free airport parking isn’t going to make a new hire pilot come to Sun Country or stay at Sun Country.

Pull and Rotate

I agree with Piper's optimism. No, Sun Country will not be the same airline it has been. But offering the level of service we offered coupled with the high costs associated with those offerings along with no real cogent long-term plan was not a model for success. Previous ownership/management was content with doing what Sun Country has always done with a seeming disregard for whether or not they made money. There was no hope for ANY significant future contract gains under the old model.

While not a big fan of the ULCC model, I do have confidence that Jude knows what he is doing to grow and make the airline sustainably profitable. One huge hurdle to overcome in order to execute his growth plan is the staffing issue. Right now we are hiring to cover attrition. Our new (to us) airplanes are not growth airplanes yet. They are just pushing out the -700's we are shedding in the transition to an -800 fleet. They have, so far, been able to do enough hiring to deal with attrition. However, once growth airplanes start arriving I think they will have difficulty actually growing the seniority list under current terms of the contract. I'm sure they will try to run raising first year pay up the flag pole as a first attempt to attract new hires since they can do that without opening up the contract. But, I think more will need to be done in order to attract enough pilots to execute the growth plan they have.

I understand Beech's perspective on what the hedge fund's goals are as far as making a profit with as little expense as possible. But, at the same time, my optimism lies with the fact that we now have resources and an actual growth strategy that Sun Country has NEVER had before. If they want to make money in this pilot hiring environment they are going to have to spend money to attract the pilots needed to staff the airline. How long it takes for this to happen is a matter left to the Magic 8 Ball that Beech referenced. But it will have to happen at some point. As a prospective new hire, if you are willing to take a chance and possibly being on the leading edge of something that is showing some potential for significant growth it's a great group to fly with.