Adlerdriver

Hey guys,
I'm looking for guidance, FAR references, CRAR, etc. on the following scenario:

IGONO 1W arrival into ZGGG. Basically it's a straight shot from an IAF to a point on downwind arriving from the northeast. Left turn to base and then pick up the ILS 02L from there.

ATC clears us to 900 meters while we are abeam the field heading southwest. The STAR has one altitude restriction (at or above 2100M) at a point about 18 DME out at the right turn to base point. It's not going to be an issue (i.e. we'll be above it at our current descent rate) but my left seater wants to delete the restriction in the box just the same.

I'm looking for a reference, opinion, etc. on what should be done in this situation absent specific direction from ATC. Do we still honor the 2100M altitude restriction even though we've been given clearance to 900M or what?

I know what we do in the states on the CIVET or into ANC on the NEELL 1 when they say "descend via the ....arrival". They didn't do that here. We were still on that IGONO 1W arrival and cleared to 900M prior to the point with the 2100M restriction.

Thanks.

iarapilot

From my experience in China, they dont use the phraseology like Stateside.

If they cleared you for the arrival, told you to maintain 900M, and cleared you for the approach, you still have to meet the altitude and speed restrictions. Unless, of course, he deleted them.

The best thing to do is ask the controller if speed and altitude restrictions for the arrival are in effect. Otherwise, I would abide by the restrictions. My 2 cents worth.

Having said that, if you dont meet the 900M restriction, they may not even notice!

DejaView

A0265/10 Notamn
Q) Zgzu/qatxx/iv/nbo/ae/000/999/2323n11318e005
A) Zggg B) 1001110801 C) 1006301559 Est
E) Altitudes Published On Standard Departure Chart-instrument And Standard Arrival Chart-instrument Of Zggg Are Expecting
Information For Planning Purposes Only. Actual Flight Altitude
Will Be Instructed By Atc.relevant Requirement Is Described In
Notes Of Sids/stars Of Zggg.

Talon1011

From AIM, Section 5-4-1:

2. Pilots navigating on STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP procedures shall maintain last assigned altitude until receiving authorization to descend so as to comply with all published/issued restrictions. This authorization will contain the phraseology “DESCEND VIA.”

(a) Clearance to “descend via” authorizes pilots to:

(1) Vertically and laterally navigate on a STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP.

(2) When cleared to a waypoint depicted on a STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP, to descend from a previously assigned altitude at pilot's discretion to the altitude depicted for that waypoint, and once established on the depicted arrival, to navigate laterally and vertically to meet all published restrictions.

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Of course, the above mentioned notam clarifies the procedure for this particular airfield. This AIM reference is given as reference for most situations.

ptarmigan

The AIM has NO relevance to procedures outside the U.S. Zero, zip, nada.

As to the question, it is best to be VERY careful about descending below any altitude that is published, even in the U.S. Mistakes happen. Outside the U.S., I would not do it unless sure that's what ATC wants, AND sure that terrain is not a factor, regardless of the legality of it.

Talon1011

I know that. See the disclaimer at the end of the post.

MrSuupafly

Adler, DejaView answered your question.

shanKs

Correct. I fly in China and even though a star or sid say something altitude-wise, ATC clearances take precedence. But do what I do, have your terrain display on :-)