Stepdown fixes inside of FAF
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 187
Stepdown fixes inside of FAF
Some ILS/LOC approach plates with stepdown fixes inside of the FAF are asterisked and labeled LOC only. Some don't have them labeled as LOC only, anyone noticed this? Is there any scenario where complying with stepdown fixes on an ILS approach INSIDE of the FAF is regulatory?
#4
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: RDU
Posts: 12
GS intercept altitude is correct. I will say thought, I see almost all pilots not comply with the step-downs outside of the glide slope intercept altitude. Ex: you are issued a clearance to maintain 4000 until established on the localizer cleared for an ILS approach and there is a step down prior to GS intercept altitude, most pilots will maintain 4000 until intercepting the GS. I see this always with our 4 ILS procedures.
#5
Rmratc
True and many were violated doing so on the ILS approaches to the 24s at KLAX. There is a multitude of them.
There was a SAFO or InFO letter out a couple of years ago on proper compliance with stepdown fixes outside the FAF.
GF
True and many were violated doing so on the ILS approaches to the 24s at KLAX. There is a multitude of them.
There was a SAFO or InFO letter out a couple of years ago on proper compliance with stepdown fixes outside the FAF.
GF
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 834
Stepdowns should be a point of emphasis during instrument training; right along with not fixating. They are relatively high on the list of busts for Inspectors, DPE's and check airman. Also worthy of note for newbies; make sure you have the means to ID the stepdown(s) before planning on or accepting those types of approaches. Also remember that the stepdowns inside the FAF will also change your minimums and that can also affect, beside the obvious, how you will operate in the vacinity of the runway/traffic pattern (Situation dependant; A lower Min. could allow a simple turn to downwind while a higher Min. without the stepdown could require a crossover, Etc.)
#7
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,211
If the full ILS is available, on glideslope, then fixes inside the FAF aren't applicable for step-down limitations (particularly where marked LOC ONLY). Outside the GSIA, however, step-down fixes are mandatory, even when following the glideslope (the long ILS arrivals into LAX are good examples).
Regardless of whether one is on the glidesoope or not, however, one should note the altitudes and check them off while passing those fixes. It's good practice to be as situationally aware as possible, and step-downs with altitudes are useful tools for monitoring the arrival and approach, even when following the electronic glideslope. This is especially true in mountainous terrain.
Regardless of whether one is on the glidesoope or not, however, one should note the altitudes and check them off while passing those fixes. It's good practice to be as situationally aware as possible, and step-downs with altitudes are useful tools for monitoring the arrival and approach, even when following the electronic glideslope. This is especially true in mountainous terrain.
#8
The LAX stepdowns were a hot issue a few years ago. They were talking about changing the approaches so the GS would clear the stedowns, not sure if it ever happened.
Being lazy, I got in the habit of hand-flying the LAX ILSs a dot high outside the marker, and then getting back on GS and AP after the last step down.
Being lazy, I got in the habit of hand-flying the LAX ILSs a dot high outside the marker, and then getting back on GS and AP after the last step down.
#9
LAX24L ILS is perfect for VNAV all the way in from the first descent 120+ east of the runway. The vertical track alert aural tone sounds about every 3 or 4 minutes. Arm APPR, leveling at the last step fix, easy as pie. I've seen guys try to use the GS 30 miles out--not pretty.
GF
GF
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 620
Some ILS/LOC approach plates with stepdown fixes inside of the FAF are asterisked and labeled LOC only. Some don't have them labeled as LOC only, anyone noticed this? Is there any scenario where complying with stepdown fixes on an ILS approach INSIDE of the FAF is regulatory?
If there are some out there I would like to know, just for my knowledge.
Thx
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thesweetlycool
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11-17-2010 04:09 AM