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Stepdown fixes inside of FAF

Old 04-01-2013, 01:34 PM
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Default Stepdown fixes inside of FAF

Some ILS/LOC approach plates with stepdown fixes inside of the FAF are asterisked and labeled LOC only. Some don't have them labeled as LOC only, anyone noticed this? Is there any scenario where complying with stepdown fixes on an ILS approach INSIDE of the FAF is regulatory?
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:17 PM
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If you're flying an ILS, the vertical path is defined by the glideslope.
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:32 PM
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I've only seen this when flying a LOC only (GS OTS). Otherwise the GS is the final approach path.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:36 PM
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GS intercept altitude is correct. I will say thought, I see almost all pilots not comply with the step-downs outside of the glide slope intercept altitude. Ex: you are issued a clearance to maintain 4000 until established on the localizer cleared for an ILS approach and there is a step down prior to GS intercept altitude, most pilots will maintain 4000 until intercepting the GS. I see this always with our 4 ILS procedures.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:48 PM
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Rmratc

True and many were violated doing so on the ILS approaches to the 24s at KLAX. There is a multitude of them.

There was a SAFO or InFO letter out a couple of years ago on proper compliance with stepdown fixes outside the FAF.

GF
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:19 PM
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Stepdowns should be a point of emphasis during instrument training; right along with not fixating. They are relatively high on the list of busts for Inspectors, DPE's and check airman. Also worthy of note for newbies; make sure you have the means to ID the stepdown(s) before planning on or accepting those types of approaches. Also remember that the stepdowns inside the FAF will also change your minimums and that can also affect, beside the obvious, how you will operate in the vacinity of the runway/traffic pattern (Situation dependant; A lower Min. could allow a simple turn to downwind while a higher Min. without the stepdown could require a crossover, Etc.)
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:54 AM
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If the full ILS is available, on glideslope, then fixes inside the FAF aren't applicable for step-down limitations (particularly where marked LOC ONLY). Outside the GSIA, however, step-down fixes are mandatory, even when following the glideslope (the long ILS arrivals into LAX are good examples).

Regardless of whether one is on the glidesoope or not, however, one should note the altitudes and check them off while passing those fixes. It's good practice to be as situationally aware as possible, and step-downs with altitudes are useful tools for monitoring the arrival and approach, even when following the electronic glideslope. This is especially true in mountainous terrain.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:23 AM
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The LAX stepdowns were a hot issue a few years ago. They were talking about changing the approaches so the GS would clear the stedowns, not sure if it ever happened.

Being lazy, I got in the habit of hand-flying the LAX ILSs a dot high outside the marker, and then getting back on GS and AP after the last step down.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:49 PM
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LAX24L ILS is perfect for VNAV all the way in from the first descent 120+ east of the runway. The vertical track alert aural tone sounds about every 3 or 4 minutes. Arm APPR, leveling at the last step fix, easy as pie. I've seen guys try to use the GS 30 miles out--not pretty.

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Old 04-02-2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by slough View Post
Some ILS/LOC approach plates with stepdown fixes inside of the FAF are asterisked and labeled LOC only. Some don't have them labeled as LOC only, anyone noticed this? Is there any scenario where complying with stepdown fixes on an ILS approach INSIDE of the FAF is regulatory?
Can you quote which ILS approaches have this "stepdown fixes on an ILS approach INSIDE of the FAF "?

If there are some out there I would like to know, just for my knowledge.

Thx
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