ghilis101

company busting? where did you guys get that term from. wow i never knew that pilots at skywest were trying to unionize so they could sabotage their careers and/or company. fantastic now it all makes sense.

its a good thing your management is spending all that money to defeat those evil union pilots and protect you, the at-will employees of skywest. phew, that was a close one. until the next union drive... yikes how do we figure out how to smash alpa once and for all. i hope when they get destroyed, they take their silly little contractual protections, GPWS, and that awful TCAS garbage with them too. maybe you guys can join jetblue and lobby the FAA for longer duty days so you can make more money!

Airsupport

ok,, you have said some pretty wild stuff on here before,, but this is the CRAZIEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD! COMPANY BUSTING?? OMG,, yes i want to bust the chops of the people who pay me.. we all love being unemployed, its what we do best! are you serious? the only company busting going on is when the company doesn't want to be fair to its employees. and even then its not company busting, it just carrying out our legal rights. like i said before i hope when you move on to a major that you don't take the "listen to management they love us attitude".. because they dont.[/quote]

once again well said ghilis. almost all of the pilots that are anti-union on this board have been in the industry a year or less,, some have only been in 6 months. they still have the kool-aid taste in their mouth. it will only be a matter of time before they will realize how fragile this career is and how much we need to fight to protect it. you are always 1 medical or 1 checkride away from being on the street, don't take this lightly

FlyJSH

For the record, my only experience with unions was in another industry. From what I saw, while the locals were helpful, but the national seemed to do very little.

My question: Can one union represent

Air Canada Jazz | Air Midwest | Air Transat | Air Wisconsin | Alaska | Aloha | Aloha Island Air | America West | American Eagle | ASTAR Air Cargo | ATA Airlines, Inc. | Atlantic Southeast | Atlas Air Cargo | Bearskin | Calm Air | Canjet | Capital Cargo Int’l Airlines | Champion Air | Comair | Continental | Delta | ExpressJet | FedEx | Freedom Airlines | Gemini Air Cargo | Hawaiian | Kelowna Flightcraft, Ltd. | Kitty Hawk Air Cargo | Mesa Airlines | Mesaba | Midwest Airlines | Northwest | Piedmont | Pinnacle | Polar Air Cargo | PSA | Ryan | Skyway | Spirit | Sun Country | Trans States Airlines | United | US Airways

equally? I am not anti union, but I do question if one union can serve so many masters.

So, convince me why a national union, representing so many pilot groups (some of which are in conflict), is better than a single company union.

(and please, I don't need to hear Marx's proletariat vs. bourgeoisie argument -- mine is not a question of the value of unions)

TonyWilliams

From your list, there are several with active "dump ALPA" campaigns. US Air, United, American Eagle...

HSLD

In the case of ALPA, you have national resource supporting local MECs. It's the local MEC (ie. pilots at YOUR airline) that negotiate with the help of labor lawyers, contract administrators, R&I experts, etc...

A single company union cannot afford the resources that a national union brings to the table, especially at a regional airline. Think of it as a Costco membership in that the national union brings leverage in the "purchasing" power to all members that a single group couldn't afford. So, number 1 would be available resources to members.

Next, and crucial to our profession is patterned bargaining. Non-union airlines have managements that are successful at brining/keeping wages and benefits artificially low (it's their job!). Membership in a nation union allows/produces a higher chance of success in pattern bargaining. Think of it as a tug-of-war, union airlines are trying to drag regional pay up, and non-union managers are trying to drag it (keep it) down.

Finally, remember that contracts go well beyond pay. Having vast union resources in economic analysis will allow a pilot group to cost a contract to make sure that a company can afford it (hint they will ALWAYS cry poor) and that pilots don't leave money on the table. In addition to pay, a pilot group should be able to improve work rules, QWL, benefits, etc.

In short, participation in a national membership will require as much or more participation by line pilots and you'll pay about 1.95% of W2. Pilots at YOUR airline will have to do the committee work day in day out. Your MEC will have to debate the resolutions and make the decision. National does NOT show up and do all this for you (locally). But, when it's time to draw on resources available to the union a national union does have much greater resources than an in-house union ever could - and that is the benefit.

The national union in question is not perfect, but I'd pick it over an in-house any day.

ghilis101

they might be dump alpa campaigns, but they are certainly not dump union campaigns. if these airlines vote out alpa, they will opt for a different union. Huge difference there.

we all know usair is doing it because of the merger fiasco, and if they de-cetify alpa, that will screw them AGAIN in the *possible* future merger with an *un-named* alpa carrier.

United and Eagle have weak MEC's and youll see the same issues until they vote new guys in regardless of the union. dont think that being non-union would have made them better off!

SilverSurfer

Jack

Great post. I'm with Flight Options and currently in the midst of a post vote negotiations battle. We have been in negotiations for 21 months now with the company dragging their feet and avoiding the meaningfully issues, doing just enough to qualify as "negotiating in good faith".

We have been hearing rumors of a decertification drive and a push to put in place a "in house group" of some kind, no doubt supported by management.

Do you have any ideas about managements post vote strategies for negotiations and decertification?