The only bigger joke than this idea is ALPA

There may be no shortage of people trying to get you Mad Dog seat, but the shortage of pilots in general is a very real issue. It has been written on by just about every aviation magazine, and touched on bu USA TOday and the WSJ. Regionals have dipped to hiring people with the ink still wet on their multi-commercials, so your version of supply & demand is incorrect.


Disagree. Do a little research on civil service jobs, and recall rights after layoffs.

When every union is telling them the same thing, and refusing to sign for less, lets it go to arbitration, lets it stall, complies with the RLA, and eventually can WALK.... watch how fast they all change their tune.
It's been done before in different industry with worse restrictions than ours uner the RLA.

True, to a certain point... but if it is EVERY ALPA carrier at the same time, then they will have to become involved in the resolution. Wrong, about people to take the job. As I said, no shortage of people in line for yours, but the regionals are having a hard time getting qualified people.

Fine, they can be left behind when everybody else moves ahead. They will be welcome to join ALPA if they chose.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Maybe in rural suburbia the majority of fire services are volunteers. Go to any metropolitan area and they are full time civil service positions.... especially on the coasts. The majority of them have recall rights. In the event thay are laid off, the first department hiring in their state has to offer the job to the layoff list first.
Happens more with the cops here in New England, since noboady likes to lay off firefighters.



Yes, and not what I was talking about. My point was that when recalled, your new employer does their matching contribution based on your years of ALPA seniority, not as a new hire with no company match.

Realistically.... you are wrong. Practically, you are correct; under our current structure and leadership (or lack thereof)

To an extent I will agree that there is some type of shortage. The shortage, as I see it, is a shortage of qualified individuals willing to go to work for current wages and QOL offered by most carriers, especially the regional carriers.

The proverbial pilot shortage has been written about since I began taking lessons 18 years ago. True, we have seen many regional carriers lower their hiring minimums, but we are in a much different state of the industry than we were in the 1990's. Then, the vast majority of those who flew for a regional/commuter did so as a stepping stone rather than looking at it as a career destination. Now, regional airlines are a career for the majority and a stepping stone for the few. I believe that is what keeps a lot of otherwise qualified individuals from searching for aviation employment and why we see a perceived pilot shortage. Nothing scientific, just my personal observation. :)

I saw this response under a quote with regards to the screen actors guild. I'm not sure how civil service employment and Hollywood SAG employment are related, if that is indeed what you were trying to communicate.

I think the key word is walk. If you are allowed to walk, then you might have some leverage. But, and this again is an observation, I would be prepared for one of two possibilities.

First, because of the financial instability of a lot of carriers, the labor agreement itself could force the company into a bankruptcy situation. The second possibility is that management may allow you to walk and let the company shut down. I wouldn't put it past a lot of airline managers to throw the baby out with the bath water.

The larger cities (i.e., LA, NY, Miami-Dade, etc.) are full time professional. Some of the suburbs (and county) FD's are professional as well. But some large areas, Virginia Beach for example, are a combination of paid and volunteer. It's a sensitive topic with their union - and I can understand why.

Oh it's all PR motivated. Think about it, nobody is happy to see the cops show up. Everyone is happy when the Fire Dept. does. :D

Noted.

Yes, they have been writing about it for a long time... they have been saying it will come in 15-25 years (depending where you read it).... the 15-25 years has arrived.


Two different examples. One of a Guild system that it doesn't matter who employs the Guild member, they get Guild negotiated wages and benefits...
The other of a layoff and recall system that works, keeping trained people employed, before going to new hires.... while preserving their time into the retirement system, years of service (for vacation totals and things of that nature).

True, people are generally happy to see the big red trucks, and unhappy to see the stormtroopers.
That being said, there are a bunch of states where they do maintain layoff lists, and require cities and town to hire from layoff before going to new hires.

Sounds to me like we actually agree more than disagree.... and that it is just slightdifferences in verbage we're arguing over. No big deal.

I do agree, the regionals have become a career destination, while a few do still hit it right and make it to a major. That is why ALPA needs to start running more like a national union, instead of just the loose association of several locals that they have now. It is too easy for for one airline to mess with, and whipsaw, their pilots. It is an entirely different thing, when company X does something dumb, and EVERY single ALPA pilot at all airlines....... s...l...o...w.......d...o...w...n.... in the interest of safety.