United Hiring Brief (2/9/18)
02-17-2018, 08:59 AM
#141
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by McNugent
You guys can banter back and forth about this all day and what exactly is it going to do? Nada. In the end none of our opinions really matter. They have their way of hiring, and whether your U2 buddy didn't get a hogan or some riddle wonder kid gets to fly the 756 at 24 yrs old is a mute point. Pilots don't like change and that's exactly what's happening here. A paradigm shift to where airlines will be looking to a pipeline, a known quantity of bodies coming down the line that they can rely on to fly their planes. It's just a matter of time. Warm bodies to fill seats are what keeps recruiting departments at regionals up at night. It will happen here as well. Just further down the road. Expect to see more career pathway programs in the future where kids sign on the dotted line for (insert major airline here) while still in college. Don't believe me? It's already happening and this is just the beginning.
https://northdenvernews.com/united-a...ion-of-pilots/
https://www.expressjet.com/assets/Up...r-Students.pdf
https://northdenvernews.com/united-a...ion-of-pilots/
https://www.expressjet.com/assets/Up...r-Students.pdf
I don’t think it has anything to do with pilots not liking change. I think most pilots are reasonable enough to see the purpose of these programs, but it’s seems shockingly premature to start hiring CFI’s when the applicant pool is nowhere close to being dried up.
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02-17-2018, 09:04 AM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
Eliminating the 4 year degree requirement will bring an influx of highly qualified pilots. I have several friends that for one reason or another never got their degree.
We already have pilots without degrees at our airline.
We already have pilots without degrees at our airline.
02-17-2018, 09:37 AM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by Anderson
I don’t think it has anything to do with pilots not liking change. I think most pilots are reasonable enough to see the purpose of these programs, but it’s seems shockingly premature to start hiring CFI’s when the applicant pool is nowhere close to being dried up.
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02-17-2018, 10:23 AM
#146
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by McNugent
It does have some to do with change. It can't just happen over night. These programs whether it be at the academic or CFI level are coming, and we're only going to hear more about it in the future. So while it may be shocking that United hires CFIs over highly experienced military or other backgrounds, I just see it as the tip of the iceberg. For now it's the exception to the norm, but at some point I could see it being harder for someone not in a CPP, AP3, military whatever pipeline we have set up getting a call (look at American). It's all about forecasting known candidates to fill our cockpits in the future.
When you’re on the inside, when you’ve already got the dream job, it’s probably easier to have a perspective like yours. If you’re on the outside looking in, it’s a bitter pill to swallow. It seems like all of the regional pilots who have paid their dues for a decade are suddenly collateral damage as a result of this tip-of-the-iceberg change.
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02-17-2018, 11:06 AM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by Anderson
When you’re on the inside, when you’ve already got the dream job, it’s probably easier to have a perspective like yours. If you’re on the outside looking in, it’s a bitter pill to swallow. It seems like all of the regional pilots who have paid their dues for a decade are suddenly collateral damage as a result of this tip-of-the-iceberg change.
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02-17-2018, 12:48 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: Taco Rocket Operator
Posts: 2,485
Northwest tried something similar back in the mid 90s. Hired guys at UND with 250 hours, gave them Northwest seniority numbers and sent them to Mesaba to build time. Keep in mind at this time you had to have something like 5000 total and 500 multi just to get an interview at Mesaba. Instructors and APDs gave them no slack and something like 90 percent of their "intensely vetted" candidates failed training and the program ended.
Same thing here. HR can get them in the door, but they can't get them through training. Expecting these CFIs to perform in training like military or regional guys with thousands of hours in jets is going to be fun to watch. I don't expect United's instructors or APDs are going to give them a pass, so don't be surprised to see this blow apart once these guys actually get in the training pipeline.
Like many things at UAL, what looks like a good idea to the suits in the Willis Tower turns into a cluster in the real world. We'll see what happens when these guys actually hit the training department.
Same thing here. HR can get them in the door, but they can't get them through training. Expecting these CFIs to perform in training like military or regional guys with thousands of hours in jets is going to be fun to watch. I don't expect United's instructors or APDs are going to give them a pass, so don't be surprised to see this blow apart once these guys actually get in the training pipeline.
Like many things at UAL, what looks like a good idea to the suits in the Willis Tower turns into a cluster in the real world. We'll see what happens when these guys actually hit the training department.
09-03-2018, 02:56 AM
#150
Abused Spouse of PBS
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 439
Originally Posted by tzadik
While I don’t need a safe space, I can attest this is difficult news to digest. As a person that has wanted to work at United since the days of my PPL, it seems as if I’ve been trying to hit a moving target with terrible aim. They said build turbine time and get PIC, so I did that (5000/1500). They said get a 4-year degree, so I went to school full time for three years on my days off and earned my bachelor. They said community service is a big plus on a resume, so I volunteered at the local food bank. They said letters of recommendation help, so I went out and got 12 from current and retired United pilots (including 3 LCA’s and a CP). They said you get points on your application for attending job fairs, so I went to three of them. They said recency of Part 121 experience is important, so I left corporate aviation and returned to 121 a few years ago. Thus far, crickets.
I did not come here in search of sympathy nor pity but rather to confirm the words of a previous poster that yes it does feel like “we’re taking it on the chin yet again.” I don’t hold any animosity towards the CFI’s that have been hired as I’d be the first through the door if in their shoes. However, I can only hope they realize their seat in said class most likely comes at a disadvantage and that every opportunity to quell said encumbrance is heeded.
I’ll be sure to let you know when the crickets stop chirping.
I did not come here in search of sympathy nor pity but rather to confirm the words of a previous poster that yes it does feel like “we’re taking it on the chin yet again.” I don’t hold any animosity towards the CFI’s that have been hired as I’d be the first through the door if in their shoes. However, I can only hope they realize their seat in said class most likely comes at a disadvantage and that every opportunity to quell said encumbrance is heeded.
I’ll be sure to let you know when the crickets stop chirping.
What changed your tune from what you posted below in 2008?
Originally Posted by tzadik
not wishing for anyones doom... but the fact of the matter is one of the legacy carriers is gonna go down before the rest move on... its either gonna be US Airways or United and my vote is strongly in favor of y'all. it never ceases to amaze me at how unwilling an unyielding united is to change. i remember hearing stories about how UAL pilots (and other legacy pilots for that matter) would laugh at the SWA guys and point at their little brown and tan 737's... yikes.
arrogance of the regional guy? hmmm...
oh you mean like UAL thinkin their guys should have priority on my plane?
or
do you mean the UAL CA&FO that came up to me in the terminal after a flight they were both deadheading on got cancelled and proceeded to tell me how my regional makes United look bad?
my response... or it could be your terrible leadership, operations, hubs, routes, fleet, and attitude that makes your company look bad.
arrogance of the regional guy? hmmm...
oh you mean like UAL thinkin their guys should have priority on my plane?
or
do you mean the UAL CA&FO that came up to me in the terminal after a flight they were both deadheading on got cancelled and proceeded to tell me how my regional makes United look bad?
my response... or it could be your terrible leadership, operations, hubs, routes, fleet, and attitude that makes your company look bad.
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