I’d be willing to bet you are in the vast minority. The junior guy isn’t asking him to bump anybody. He’s asking a fellow pilot to help him get to work. And I’ve never asked...I just hope they have the sense to do it on their own. Somehow you think this comes down to junior pilots thinking they’re better than everybody else? Jeez. I guess I’m done here then. So how do you feel about senior guys with a PS seat who take the Jumpseat to help the gate agent out when there are guys listed for the JS? Cuz I’ve seen this as well.

And I do it all the time. I always tell the agent when they call me for a seat that I’m double listed and will take the JS if that helps another nonrev get on. Other times I’ve seen guys not do that. That’s a foul as well.

I do as well. I'm just stating that it has become an expectation in my opinion. I have no problem "helping" as long as the flights aren't super long.

Now the PS seat holding JSer is a POS for doing that crap :mad:

Sorta. Suppose its IAD-SEA or some other far away destination. Am I supposed to shoehorn myself into Crap7 JS so that a bag smasher hired last month can occupy a seat in Econ Plus? While I agree that we look like jerks when we don't, at some point it becomes a real issue.

I have done that more than a dozen times during my tenure at MU. But the older I get - and the more my lower back acts up the less likely I am to agree with you. You, of course, are free to do as you wish.

Fair enough, I am obviously in the minority. I commuted to ORD for 15 yrs from 95-2010 and never saw pilots displacing someone from their seat in the back to get a junior pilot in the cockpit who otherwise would have had to wait for their backup. I was taught by the old farts who walked the line that seniority was what mattered. JS is by seniority. Senior person got it. In the back seniority matter, the senior EMPLOYEE not pilot got on.

I’ll bow out as it seems today’s commuters are all about ME. God help the next generation.

I’m just glad I moved to driving distance. I’ll let my friends who aren’t pilots know, just drop the vacation pass and see if they senior CA is willing to do the same to get the 2015 hire in the JS.

You’re asking a more senior pilot to disregard their seniority because the inbound flight may block in one hour or less from outbound departure?

Let me know how that works out.

The current system allows pilots to list prior to the flight and be displayed in seniority order. What’s the mystery?
If you’re number 3 with 2 pilots senior checked in for the jumpseat, guess what!?

That said, I think most guys will list for and check in for a seat in back and just list for the jumpseat. If the jumpseat is the only option they’ll check in for the JS at the gate and go that route.

Yes, it sucks to commute and it sucks to be junior. If you have to commute AND be junior, the pain is exponential.

Ok I’m with you now. I see what you’re saying. Agree.

The mystery is the senior pilot who doesn’t LIST until inside a half an hour prior to push. Had the senior pilot listed, the junior pilot could have taken an earlier flight, or turned it into a 2 leg commute and gone through a different hub.

I get the way seniority works, and that everybody will have their turn at the mic.

I don’t expect, but I appreciate crew that looks out for other crew. Primary examples include: listing ahead of time, coordinating if its possible for the senior person to take a seat in back, and making sure nobody got left behind with open seats.

The ship has already sailed on a FCFS, that aint going to happen. I will stand my spot in the back of the line; however, I really appreaciate it when the senior people telegraph their intentions... This way I can adjust my plan.

Fair enough as well. I don’t see this at all as all about ME. I’d say that about the senior guy who disregards his fellow pilots 4-8 times a month. I am planning on moving to base as well. I’ve seen this...pilots helping pilots...constantly from most guys senior to me. They do what it takes to help help get pilots to work. You cannot implicate the younger generation because far and away almost all of yours does it too. I stated that it was an unusual exception to see otherwise...but it happens on occasion.

I personally don’t agree with that view point . You def are in the minority in today’s world . Having commuted for the last 10 or so.

The whole non rev thing goes in seniority regardless of which work group you are in , pilot , FA , ground ops etc .


So by having a senior 87 hire ride the back and allowing the 2015 hire to sit in the Jumpseat , no seat was taken away from that ground ops fellow , him nor any other group besides the pilot group had access to that jump seat at any point.

The seats in the back of the airplane are the ONLY ones that other groups access too , so I don’t see it as you describe .

Respectfully don’t agree with your view point .

There was a EWR 777 $cab that would do that. Listed for SA ONLY, would wait till about 15-20 prior, THEN just take the JS. She’s retired now thank god.

I agree with your respectful disagreement of his view point.

If you’re reading this thread, and are giving up your PS seat to ride the JS to “help” you are creating an expectation and abrogating a negotiated benefit in the UPA and damaging the QOL of all of us.

I recently had this happen to me. Missed my commute because a PS0 was willing to take the JS in order to “help” the gate agent and screwed me out of my ride to work. The turn around on my PDR was minutes. The gate agent was getting a thrashing from ORD within 5 minutes of me filing (I was still there), and the offending pilot had prostan and the PDR guys calling him as soon as they blocked in.

Do not do this.

1000 percent agree on the positive space stuff . I have never seen this happen here so far .

Few times Last airline I’d be in the back non reveing home and gate agent would come down with another non rev etc and say oh can you take the jump seat so he/she can get on . Clearly right in front of everyone putting me on the spot lite . Have had this happen a Half dozen times . Completely unacceptable .

On the other hand , I have had the gate agent approach hour prior , “saying hey here is a mom / dad of such and such gate agent , they won’t get on unless you could maybe take the jumps seat . Any chance you could help ?” Totally dif approach and story . But not in front of a loaded airplane door ready to close.

And the pitfall being, you get "unseated" in the back, listed for JS. THEN, 15-20 whatever mins prior a senior guy comes up and wants to bump you from the seat.

Agreed. Fully. As far as the J/S goes nobody is breaking any rules or abrogating seniority. If we aren't going to help each other out who will?

Ive done this before with the agreement with the gate agent, that if anyone senior bumps me from the JS, I take back the seat in the back. Everyone is on the same page before any agreement is made.

This makes sense. Not sure I’ve ever seen it on a transcon but there’s still a way to handle it that I’ve seen a number of times: swap for the J/S with the junior guy after everyone is on board. A hassle for sure...but it works.

Right.

But now your subject to the whims of the agent's ability and patience.

If the agents get busy, "unseat" you, whatever, they can be less than willing to play ball later on.

I can stand in the forward galley for as long as it takes. :D

Well, that’s true also.

There was one occasion where I had the JS, another offline pilot had already gone down before me. The agent said I couldn’t go down. I said “yes I can”.

Well, she had an absolute fecal fit, called the supervisor, threatened to call security, etc.

When I wrote the JS committe (among others) about it , they weren’t really surprised.

Grabted, it was an offline pilot in this situation. But don’t EVER doubt an agents ability to take their “authority” waaaaaay too far sometimes;

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/a...p/t-58338.html

And hey, it was before you (and me) got to be in the show as evidenced by the first reply ;)

Nice sleuthing. In a twist of irony the last CA I flew with was telling me about this exact story. Never heard the outcome.

I’m not sure why the red face is appearing on top, can’t seem to edit it out, must have fat fingered.

I was I just reading it to make sure it was the right one and just happened to see your username first. Was kinda funny.

Just read the story in the link you provided.
Even if only 75% accurate I am stunned. The behavior of first the gate agent, lack of support from flt ops, and then the behavior of the police is (was) astounding.

Sorry John, clicked on reply to Grumble rather than yours...since both talking about, credit where due