Three JS listed, two JS on Airbus
 

So I am the most senior JS listed of three listed. Two of us are present.

Gate agent asked if I would take the JS about 50 minutes prior to departure to get one more SA on.

Flight fairly full. I said let's wait a little longer. Anyway, at about 30 minutes prior she wants my decision.

A little back in forth as I asked her to wait until 20 minutes before departure as that seems to be when they clear SAs on a full flight.

No go, so I take a seat in the back so as not to screw a late show JS.

Don't know why she couldn't wait for one seat, just a bad attitude.

That sucks.

I don't see what else you could have done differently given the situation. It seems like the agent was actually making things harder on herself while you were trying to do right by everybody.

If nothing else, fill out a PDR for the jumpseat committee.

Ya, the other JS never showed, so she could have gotten another SA onboard for Memorial weekend. Hell, work with me, she could have marched a SA down the Jetway as she was shutting the door and I would have gone to the cockpit JS.

I know it's not always an easy thing to do but some quick com with captain and he/she could have made the walk and ensured that there was a soul in every seat...

Something like ....hey just checking in, I'm listed for a JS but there are a couple of guys junior to me listed and I'm not sure they are here yet...agent wants me to make a decision about an open seat in the back ...if you end up with an empty JS I'll gladly sit there to get another nonrev on....

Then cue the "deer in the headlights" look from a captain that has never commuted to work a day in his/her life....

but at least you know you've done everything you can...

I went down before PAX to stow my bag and explain what was going on to Capt.

Then you covered all the bases.... from a fellow commuter thanks for being considerate...

+1

10X better SA than many commuters I see out there

Been commuting for a long time. Always advocating and checking boarding area when Capt's are clueless.

We had a very senior guy on my commute that always took the JS even though he could have gotten a seat in the back. He is retired now.

Sometimes within 10 minutes of departure he would show up, not even listed before hand.

Anyway, from now on, I think I will always take a seat in the back unless the CSR is willing to work with me.

I completely agree with this etiquette, but be careful. I once took a seat in the back to get an express Jumpseater on. Just prior to closing the door, the agent comes on board and tells me she needs me to get off immediately because the revenue pax showed up for my seat. As I’m leaving the plane the express guy is standing up front shaking his head and says “sorry dude”. I’m like, excuse me? He actually expected me to get off my own metal after doing him a favor and get left behind. I don’t think so. I’m all for helping a guy out, but if they try to unseat me at the last minute I’m taking the jump unless of course the captain doesn’t allow me to.

I hear ya, in this particular case it was all United pilots, but I certainly would explain to an offline guy he is getting the boot if I can ride in the back.

Thanks for your efforts.

Yeah I have seen plenty of senior guys just go down and grab the jump seat, this is totally selfish . Just wait a few more mins ( you're safe , your getting to work no mater what) and maybe you get a seat in the back , and will help a fellow co-worker , alpa memember , man code , pilot get to work .

We know your seniority will get you there but don't dick the junior guy

Totally agree. As an MCO-EWR commuter I see this happening too often so the senior guy can "go down and make sure he gets his bag on" when he would have gotten a seat in the back if he waited 10 more min and allowed a more junior pilot to get to work. Total lack of JS etiquette.

Agreed that we should help fellow pilots, but when you say “Total lack of JS etiquette.” are you suggesting that showing up 20 minutes before push is OK?

if a pilot is going to work and can’t show up to sort JS priority out in the boarding area, maybe another look at what etiquette really is could be useful.

I'm not talking about what time you show at the gate. In my case, there were 4 of us at the gate at least 30 min early one morning and the most senior one decided to go down and occupy the jumpseat before the non revs had been cleared. The other 3 of us didn't get on when one of us would have gotten the JS if he would have waited till non revs were cleared. 2 of us called the crew desk and they, thankfully, agreed to positive space us on the next flight. The most junior guy ended up buying a discounted UAL ticket before we called the crew desk to ensure he could get to work on the next flight.

Oh I gotcha, thanks for the clarification. That does suck.

Thanks for making the effort. Most times, with a little communication, you can get everyone on board. Just a quick word with the agent helps a lot. Most are pretty good in this regard, but you have to have a Capt. that is willing to walk out to the podium.

Can’t tell you how many times I’ve see his happen....

Coulda been right at 1 hour prior, agent was there and the guy just asked to go down.

Had he waited, he would have held a seat in the back. Or worse, on the bus/75 or 76/777 when they used to do more domestic hub to hub and 2 guys go down RIGHT AWAY that could have held seats in the back.

Not a commuter any more, but SOP for me was to chat with agent and get her/him working with me. Nearly always they would....

However this new "laser focus" on D:00 is putting a lot of stress on agents above and below the wing... especially in the hubs.

I suspect the agent the OP was dealing with was feeling under the gun.

Am I the only one that thinks that our jumpseat rules are complete garbage? Every other airline does FCFS within a time window and we’re the only place where a senior guy can list 10 mins prior to push and bump you off. Which has happened to me more than once already. Glad we’re on the same team! 🙄

As a nonrev standby, how do you “hold” a seat in the back regardless of seniority? Not sure as to what you’re referring to.

Let’s say the flight is showing -5, you see the names on the list and theirs is listed twice.

Once for SA, other for JS.

By the time all the no shows and misconnects were accounted for and the non-revs start getting cleared, and sure as sh1t it got down to where their name WAS on the SA list.

IOW, they could have held a seat in the back, yet just took the JS and sent down without even waiting for it to pan out.

I completely agree. We should at least have a cut off time. It’s absolutely ridiculous and stupid IMO

We used to have a 20 minute cut off at s-UAL (should be NLT 20) but just like how we now have with the should requirement to meet in the FPA before the first leg of a trip, there were individuals that argued that it was written as “should, not shall” so they didn’t think it applied to them. Eventually it was dropped.

Another suck is asking a Delta or Southwest pilot if they would mind sitting in the flight attendant jumpseat so you can take their cockpit jump. UA pilots o can not reciprocate because that is the United flight attendant's jumpseat and not United's. The rules do need a visit. This crap is antiquated. Not sure what the argument is on allowing FAs in our jumpseat. They are up there already.

Couldnt agree more . This old school mind set needs to go ... most airlines allow this .

I think it is best to refer to it as the "cabin" jumpseat not the flight attendant jumpseat.

I agree that the pilots should have access to the cabin jumpseat with a priority given to UA flight attendants. Considering that it is an empty seat, with the ability to get a crewmember in position to perform duty for the company, it seems crazy that the airline would choose to restrict this.
I also agree that we should allow a reservation system for the pilots that allows us to guarantee the js. Once again the company benefits because the pilot gets to work and it allows alternative planning for everyone well in advance of 10 minutes prior to push.
And it relieves the agent of one more last minute duty.

My feelings about changing the jumpseat system seemed to be in the minority in the last thread this was discussed.

But then wouldn’t that seat that the senior guy would have had in the back just go to the next guy down the list? Still gets filled by the next most senior non rev right?

You are correct. This is just a pilots looking out for pilots strategy.

If the senior jumpseater for example was an 87' hire date he/she might be way up the list for a seat in the cabin. Meanwhile the junior jumpseater is say a 15' hire date. Way down the list for a cabin seat. The normal etiquette is for the senior guy to stand by for a seat in the cabin to allow the junior jumpseater an opportunity to occupy the jumpseat.
Getting the most senior non rev on in your example would often not be the junior pilot but someone else.

We are FCFS for the jumpseats at 1 hour prior at SWA. We are FCFS for nonreving at 24hr check in. Sure helps plan your commute as a junior guy because you know your place once you check in.

Well, sure.......

^^^^THIS

Although there is a “special” subset that has a track record of not looking out for pilots.

^^^^AND this.

“I’m gonna take the JS to help get more standbys on.....”

[QUOTE=John Carr;2605204]Well, sure.......



^^^^THIS

Although there is a “special” subset that has a track record of not looking out for pilots.



^^^^AND this.

“I’m gonna take the JS to help get more standbys on.....”[/QUOTE

Exactly. I see this frequently and it ****es me off to no end. I don’t mind if the guy is one above me on the cabin standby list but it’s usually some super senior guy who’s way above me for the cabin and already gone down to take the JS. Clueless and selfish is what it is. Some of these guys don’t even list for the cabin.

So it’s ok for him to bump another coworker in the back who’s senior to you but is not a pilot so you can get on the plane out of seniority order?

Think about how that sounds to every other working group at UAL. Ever wonder why some gate agents don’t like pilots?

That's a weak effort at a low blow....really..?

Senior guy takes the cabin coach seat in respective seniority order and junior guy takes the unoccupied jumpseat and you stretch that into "get on the plane out of seniority order" ....
Nobody is doing anything below board....
How's this ....I utilize a vacation pass and let the gamesmanship begin.... look at all the "out of seniority order" status I've gained now.

It was an honest question. Why are we as pilots so special that we should get on ahead of other more senior coworkers? And that someone would get ****ed because a senior pilot didn’t screw a coworker for the junior person.

Vacation pass, they’re yours do as you want. I have never used a vacation pass for a commute. I actually use them for vacation with my family but I don’t have a problem if someone wants to use them to commute. We all get an allotment to use as needed. I’d personally rather see us all get X number of fee waived FC/BC seats for travel. It’s the only reason I use them. To go international with a chance for a comfy seat fee waived.

We don’t get on ahead or out of seniority. He gets on in his seniority and the more junior guy gets the Jumpseat.

The two times I’ve asked a fairly senior guy if he would have gotten a seat the answer was “I would rather sit up here than in a middle seat.” Both times, after a “suggestion” the senior guy got his middle seat and swapped with the guy who had the jumpseat. Took one minute and everyone is happy. This is not that hard.

The pilot that is too junior to get on the JS asking the senior pilot to bump another employee so he/she can get on the JS is weak IMHO. I may be in the minority. I never dreamed of doing that in my first 20 yrs when I commuted. But I haven’t commuted in a while. Maybe I’m just getting old but I don’t think I’m more important than the senior coworker who didn’t get a seat because the senior pilot hooked up the junior pilot by taking a seat from a coworker.

Exactly. No one is bumping anyone. I believe that "helping" a non rev by taking the jumpseat has become an expectation on our coworkers part.