JFK???
 

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/united-seeks-return-to-new-york-jfk-449086/

Kirscar did say that pulling out of there was one of the stupidest things the previous regime did. Hope they pull it off.

JFK???
 

United gets jetblue
Delta gets Alaska
Spirit gets frontier


[emoji848]


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A good example of spinning nothing into something. The headline makes it sound like we are actively ‘seeking’ to get back into JFK, but Kirby directly says we don’t have a “feasible organic solution” for doing so. Of course, then the article implies that we might be trying to get in via an “inorganic” acquisition.

I actually think the JFK pullout might have been ultimately a good thing (aside from the initial buffoonery of essentially trading our slots away for nothing). Yeah, perhaps we gave up on a lot of premium customers, but the CO did say at the time we’d lost money on the route for years. There was an awful lot of competition there on JFK - LAX/SFO premium transcons with JB/DAL/AA. Not much competition on them though for us out of EWR, and there are plenty of well-off NJ residents who don’t want to go to all the way JFK even if it means paying a higher fare.

Don't forget, he was also patting himself on the back at what a good job he did of running UCH OUT of JFK when he was at AAG.

This. Losing money isn’t the same as a money losing route.

Smisek seemed to make a habit out of pulling out of any market there was competition on (shrinking to profitability).

We lost an exclusive and lucrative corporate contract that we now share with AA. Smisek and his management team knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing. They were considering dehubbing IAD, LAX and DEN, our most profitable hub. Complete morons.

As he should. Smart business strategist. At least now we have people willing to compete.

Fixed it for you.

Nah man, you got it all wrong. Do you think Kirby is going to throw his hands in the air and say United can’t compete since the pilots won’t budge on scope? He’ll immediately be replaced by someone who thinks they can....and then we’ll end up with a 100 seater to upgauge and/or open more markets like delta did.

Besides, I’m happy with my QoL and my contract. Scope is a non issue imo because they don’t have enough ammo to use on pay rates to convince me, or anyone I’ve talked to, that it’s worth it. To think the entire UAL increased profitability gameplan rests on us giving scope relief means our current mgmt won’t be in place for long. Wall Street won’t accept that excuse. Sometimes they are aligned with our interests.

Well thanks for that Captain Obvious :rolleyes:

It’s amazing how satire with even a touch of reality can go over people’s heads....

YMMMV, but Wall St. rarely, IF EVER has labor’s interest at heart.

Doesn’t matter if you’re in a bankruptcy environment or the most lucrative in the history of airlines.

I’ve read enough of your posts, I think you firmly believe what you wrote about scope, but you can backpedal saying “touch of reality”, which I guess makes my point, and then call me names if that helps feel like you aren’t being attacked by my post.

In this case, WS is aligned with the pilot group. Perhaps they’d like more RJ flying since it could be cheaper, but they won’t accept a business plan dependent on getting something our competitors aren’t.

Really? I called you names?

You read way, WAY too much into it to create your own reality. Triggered much?

PURE COINCIDENCE.

And simply more because of the economic environment than labor’s best interest.

Enjoy the rest of your evening.

From your friendly Jetblue pilot....



I hope y’all buy us.

That is all.

A great wish but, alas, pie in the sky. Too much overlap. DOT will never allow it to happen.

https://247wallst.com/transportation...acquired-next/

https://www.barrons.com/articles/air...lue-1525356236

Airline M&A: A Bidding War for Alaska, JetBlue?

Agree there is too much overlap in NYC/EWR. Other than that, our route structures are fairly complimentary.

If this were to be seriously considered, there would need to be several divestures; most notably EWR. SFO is actually a fairly big destination for us now, so that may require a divestiture as well.

How quaint it is for the JBLU pilot informing us what would be divested. You know about as much as we do. Which is zilch. Now where's that nb/snb order for organic growth?

You actually believe they would divest EWR? That’s laughable.

More likely a slot sale in JFK, and gate sale. Even though JFK has more runways, and isn't affected nearly as much by a drop of rain. It's all speculation anyway. The Jet Blue guys might have a shinier crystal ball than we do, so maybe they do have better info.

Not really pertinent, it isn't going to happen anyway.

Lets just give up our two largest, most popular hubs... that can't be replaced, ever!

I'm surprised that nobody is talking about a scenario where JBLU is sold---just not with ONE airline taking ALL the pieces and after the dust settles the extra planes going back to the global leasing market.

Suddenly the DOT/DOJ is satisfied and it's a win-win scenario for everybody involved, except perhaps for the excess JBLU employees.

So you can complain about their contract and MEC too???

These JB pilots don’t have any cred on our threads...I’d apologize, but once they respond to this, you’ll see it would be a moot point!

We take the planes and gates, but divest ourselves of any JB employees. Then we aren’t really acquiring the operating airline, just the equipment.

Comments like this didn't sit well with me 15 years ago and they still resonate the same today.

Floyd, Welcome to the new and improved (....cough) APC. This place has become PPRune with epaulets and a thin contract and semi-decent pay. :D

Mako,

Screwing a fellow pilot(Alpa et al) is one step above screwing our own. I think the scabs we flew with would say "I saw a great opportunity so I HAD to do it."

Sad

+1. Almost verbatim to what you would hear from a scab.

Sort of like the same comments made by the 1986 United MEC regarding Frontier????

You mean how the UAL MEC was trying to negotiate parity pay rates for the FAL pilots but UAL mgt wanted to drag out parity til the mid 90's? Or do you mean how PEX was desperate for cash, FAL was losing $10 mil/mo, and UAL mgt had both money and motive?

Linking the UAL mec to mgt's motives produce a neat narrative for your bias. The United pilot's did not want to introduce a B scale on the property and proposed a Pan Am style integration. UAL mgt refused to budge on 6 year parity. UAL mgt's primary goals were the strengthening of it's Denver hub and reduction of low cost competition across the system. Managers rarely if ever care about the human costs and the union doesn't own the keys to the company.

It's odd how scabs always have a justification for what they did. From "ALPA caused Braniff to go under", "United screwed me in 19XX", or "that wasn't a legal strike", the excuses continue. I guess we can add another to that list.

Your thinly veiled and childish inference I'm a scab because of my opinion and comment is ignorant but completely typical. I saw first hand the damage and destruction United did to my family back then. You call it bias I call it fact.

Your half truth in portrayal of the management side of the financial equation in this fiasco still does not give the UAL MEC a pass. At the end of the day they were willing to bury their Frontier ALPA brothers for the gates and equipment. Of course revisionist history is easier to explain and cover the sins of the past. Again typical and talk about transference of blame.

I guess you don't remember (or have knowledge of) the infamous "code a phone" message by Ron K when the deal fell apart? At least the PEX transaction offered them jobs which is far and above what the UAL MEC ultimately had in mind.

There was no way the factions within council 33 were going to tolerate all those senior Frontier pilots on the property in Denver, let alone system wide. The entire contract parity argument was an excuse for saving face.

Looking for a scapegoat is far easier then finding the truth. Never called you a scab but identified a sentiment that is a prelude to a scabbing excuse.

Bias? Your screen name says it all.

Back on Track...
 

Im no moderator but it’s annoying to turn a JFK (or any other) thread into scab thread. Nobody’s falling for it so moving on...
JFK:
Kirby has now said 1) He wants back into JFK 2) There’s No organic way to get there
So where’s that put us? I get tired of answering the question, “Why doesn’t United fly out of JFK?!”
If they were intent on ‘Winning NY’, they’d probably need to serve JFK. Although, we don’t serve MDW or HOU or OAK. So who knows.

Continental used to serve all three- I’m pretty sure UAL did too, just further reinforcement of what a complete, inept, piece of .... Smisek was.

Kirby, read United, want a lot of things but how much blood are they willing to part with to get it? My guess is not a lot. Winning isn't it's all cracked up to be. It costs a lot of money to be number 1. #makeUnitedgreatagain

The southeast is a perfect example. Everyone wants to know why don't we increase service in the southeastern U.S. The answer among many is Delta, and Amr to a degree, would make it extremely costly.

Now if we had some strength to leverage...

My apologies for the prior thread drift but certain things need to be called out.

The other option is UAL doesn’t re-enter JFK. Kirby wants back in but doesn’t see an organic option.

I want a unicorn, but I’m not going to buy a donkey and bolt a horn on it. Sometimes a wish list is just that.

Scapegoat? You really are an arrogant prick. The scapegoat the brotherhood used was the B scale which management backed down on in the 11th hour. It boiled down to one thing only and that was the UAL MEC did not want the pilots.

Do you know the origins of how we got the name Brainsurgeon's? Notice I said "we"?

Damn right things need to be called out about UAL skeletons. I just found the irony of prior comments to be comical and at the same time offensive given my Frontier family history.

On August 28, 1986 the UAL MEC proposed arbitration with UAL Mgt to solve the pay issue. This attempt was made after a presentation by Captain Walker, Chairman of the Frontier pilots, and Don Osmundson, President of the Frontier labor coalition. The UAL MEC agreed to bring the FAL pilots on the property at their current rates and allow a neutral arbitrator to decide the final pay outcome. UAL Mgt refused.

I'm done hijacking this thread and discussing this. I really feel sorry for your bitterness. Trust me, you're better off to let it go.