Reserve Long Call Legality Questions
 

I know that Long Call is 13 hour call out to Push Time. I've had Scheduling call me for a trip that was going to push 12:45 from the call. Told them it was illegal to assign me the trip. There only option was to change the trip where the push time was 13 hours from the call. They found someone else.

What happens for a Deadhead flight in which the assignment is less than 13 hours Push time. It's possible they could delay a DH flight to match the 13 hours, if they needed you bad enough, but does the 30 min check-in for a DH flight somewhat override the 13 hour push requirement? Asking in case scheduling says you have to be there for a DH, therefore you should be boarding, and are available for the DH flight out, even though it's less than 13 hours push from the call.

Lastly, If you check your schedule at 1800 coming off a Day off, and you snapshot the page at 18:00 showing no trips assigned, are you cleared until 2400, isn't that correct? So now scheduling could call at 12:01 AM but only for a long call assignment.

Correct, not phone available until midnight.

Long call to a DH or to operate is 13 hours, but long call to FSB is 12 hours and FSB callout to a DH is 30 minutes, so they could legally assign you to a DH in 12+30, it would just take two steps to do it.

Not sure why long call didn't go by show time of 12 hours, similar to short call show time is 2+30, then add 30 for DH and 60 to operate.

In similar situations, has anyone felt there was a little retribution on later assignments from the desk when holding them to the contract?

Scheduling Tried again, and I said no "again"
 

There was a trip that was so to depart at 12:55 PM with a DH at 12:25 PM. It was in open time all day long. I was coming off days off. At 1800 I took a look at my schedule and nothing there. I took pics showing nothing on my calendar. Then scheduling called me twice (no way was i picking up at 8 PM and then 11:45 PM, telling me I had the trip on my line for the next day and to call them back to confirm. Nope.

So I waited at Midnight to see if they would call. Nope. Then at 12:30 AM, they called to say I had the trip. I politely told them it was illegal. I needed 13 hours for push. Scheduler talked to supervisor and came back nicely, and said trip was gone.

I still don't know if for a fact it's 13 hours for Push AND for a DH check-in. Not sure where the gray area is for a DH. Can't see where that is defined in the contract.

Your report time is different if showing for a DH vice a operating leg. Your report time establishes your FDP start unless there is a SC RAP involved. That’s all a DHD on the first leg would change if assigned off LSR.

Simple answer, LSR to dept time is 13 hours. Period, no wiggle room. PDR the Hotline at PDR.alpa.org if you get a questionable assignment.

Lee. PDR HOTLINE dude.

Huggy

If you get any inclination of that, PDR to System Schedule - Crew Desk and provide the details.

That being said, yes, they can switch gears within the UPA if you tell them that’s illegal and they change to another option that is legal.

That’s the ROE.

Lee

Still need 12+45 from the end of a trip to even report for the next trip unless assigned prior to block in. 5e3e.

Sched try to play games with this, and say other sections override, but there’s nothing in the contract that waives, overrides, or contradicts 5e3e. Crew companion recognizes this as well from what I’ve seen. Verified by the union multiple times.

Should that not read, LSR to REPORT time is 13 hours? I'm not walking into the cockpit and pushing back with zero prep. If not, it certainly ought to be 13 hours to ops, 14 to push. Why should a reserve assignment require cutting corners on meeting in ops, pulling papers, firing up the iPad, discussing the wx, maint status, etc etc etc?

OM. Long call reserve dude.

I recently had Skeds call me just after a trip and assign me another trip the next morning with a report time that was 12+30. I told them since I was back on long call, it was an illegal assignment. The scheduler put me on hold and came back with a Field Standby assignment that started in 12hrs. When I woke up the next morning to head to the airport for FSB, that trip was on my schedule. Right at FSB report time, Skeds called and assigned me the trip.

You still get 12+45 off before report after a basic trip, which trumps the long call to FSB assignment. Plus, if no FSB was sitting in open time, PDR that they made it up on the spot. This is clearly not the intent of FSB, and have seen it getting abused recently. Another reason FSB needs to credit 5 hours for going to work.

Old Mako

I’m pretty sure one of us needs to go read 20-K-5-a of the UPA.

Here’s a hint.....it isn’t me.

13 hours to DEPARTURE time for LSR call out.

Don’t mix this up with other provisions like 12+45 scheduled duty break in base (domestic/basic example) from Release to Report.

Lee

Then it's not a 13-hour long-call window. It's 12.
Just like S-Call, scheduling thinks it's 2.5 to push.

;)

I hear what you are saying.

However, the 13 to push/departure time is defined that way because they can reduce a global RSVs report to 60 mins vice the normal 90 mins. Also, if the first leg was a DHD, then normal report is 30 prior.

Normal report time for a Basic RSV is 60 minutes prior (flying leg). If you want to look at it as a 12 hour call out in this case, that works for me. Just want to make sure you understand the difference.

As to the SC issue, the 2.5 is to report unless you agree to a short call out. What a given scheduler might think is irrelevant.

Lee

Lee, what you’re saying is correct except in the case if you’re coming off a trip and are on long call. You need 12+45 from debrief before reporting for the next trip unless assigned prior to block in.

On the check-in for DH, I don’t go off if when the latest I’m allowed to check in, I go off of when the required pairing report time is.

Sometimes it is only a few minutes difference, but that few minutes has saved me before when they tried to give me an illegal assignment.

While I am well aware of the provisions of 5-E and 5-F, that wasn’t the discussion.

In the case of the 12+45 scheduled in base duty break directed by 5-E-3, you should see that reflected in the FIFO list as R xxxx/date where xxxx is the 12+45 added on to your trip release time.

Simply stated, it gives you an extra 45 mins before you would be legal to report for a trip or FSB. And you are correct, they shouldn’t assign a trip/FSB with a report prior to that time.

If they gave you a short call right after release from a trip, that would be legal with the minimum 10 hours (or 12 hours if assigned after 1800). You just couldn’t be assigned a trip that required a report earlier than the time I described above.

I won’t go into the 5-F-3 actual ops 10+45 min in base break since we are talking reserve here.

And we are talking about Basic requirements. Global has different required minimum times.

Regarding DHD, any FDP that starts with a DHD should reflect a 30 min report time which sat arts your FAR117 FDP clock on the assumption that you have a flight you are later operating that doesn’t have an intervening rest period.

Lee

Ok I get what you’re saying. Thanks.

Good, because when a PDR comes in, we look at the whole picture, UPA and FAR117 legalities. Each situation is different. While FAR legal might be UPA illegal. And the opposite.

Rather than grab on to one provision of the UPA, learn them all and the FAR.

LEE

Wait, who is grabbing one section of the UPA and not learning the FAR? I thought this thread was going well. My tone detector must be broken.

Sorry and apologies if I offended. I’m just saying that every pilot that submits a PDR has their own unique set of facts. They look at one thing but miss the bigger picture on the other legalities, be they FAR or UPA.

We often find other overriding issues that the pilot hadn’t considered.

Try the PDR.alpa.org if you ever have a scheduling issue.

Again, sorry if I came across the wrong way.

Lee

No worries. No offense taken, thanks for the info and references. It helps!

Lee..
First off, let me say 'Thanks' for what you and the other volunteers do with regards to the PDR's and getting back to us. Very much appreciated!

I've asked this question often and made this statement to whoever I run into within the union.
Why can't we have a library of information where examples are shown that may explain a certain situation?
I know we have a library of 'DYK'. But they don't really include examples. And some of them are years old.
Seems to me that we could have a few examples of real world situations which would help guys out. Take real world PDR's and de-identify them....

As long as we have newhires, guys coming back off of vol furlough and mil leave, and guys (and gals!) swapping BES's.. we will have these types of questions.

Just my .02cents~

Motch

Motch

I hear you brother. Frustrates me as well.

There’s a number of comms put out by both contract interpretation folks and/or the SSC. I have them all downloaded and available for easy reference.

They are in the e library on the MEC website so are available. That said I’d like them all put into a combined document.

Reach out to your LEC and let them know your feelings.

Lee