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Originally Posted by JoePatroni
(Post 2669668)
When they start using robot trucks, it’s time to start worrying. How much savings are there when the robot truck plows into a school bus?
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Originally Posted by ReadyRsv
(Post 2669871)
Over half of all guppy flying [...] at UAL has night flying. FYI
Less than 10% of the ORD 737 flying for October has a red-eye leg. LAX and SFO has a lot more. East coast hubs, less. It's been over two years since I flew a red-eye that I didn't trade into. I spent 15 years flying night freight. Even when I do fly a red-eye at UAL, it is so much easier. One catered leg then off to the hotel. Night freight isn't bad when you're 30 because it's relatively easy to sleep all day. By the time you're 45 you're waking up early afternoon and unable to get back to sleep. |
63% of SFO 737 pairings in Oct contain redeyes.
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Originally Posted by El Guapo
(Post 2670192)
63% of SFO 737 pairings in Oct contain redeyes.
Do you remember the overall fleet red-eye (ANF) percentage was from the SSC updates? |
Originally Posted by FollowMe
(Post 2669990)
Because the fatalities are less dead when a human is at the controls of the truck? The sooner we are on automated highways the better, far too many lives are lost because someone stopped paying attention for a split second, or was impaired by a substance. Just because YOU are a safe driver doesn’t mean everyone around you is, every time you take to the road you are one distracted driver away from never seeing your family again.
I'll agree with the second part of your comment. No truer words could be spoken. However, I don't think the technology is there yet (for driving specifically...much further off for the 3 axis congested enviornment where we work). It will be the switchover that will be most problematic requiring machines to react to humans and vice versa. |
Originally Posted by avi8tor4life
(Post 2668388)
Has anyone on here left FedEx for United?
Can anyone shed light on possible differences? Work rules? Payrates? Trip Length? Junior fleet? Thanks I am sure they are kicking themselves in the ass now. Fedex and UPS still have nice pensions. I would love to fly out of non passenger terminals, and have no FAs and PAX on board. |
You cant ever say you are leaving FedEx. FedEx and SWA pilots are so damn sensitive about their companies its not even funny. Tell either one of them that YOU didnt choose them and they act like some crazed ex girlfriend.
FedEx doesnt fly at night and isnt based in Memphis. |
Originally Posted by sherpster
(Post 2671321)
You cant ever say you are leaving FedEx. FedEx and SWA pilots are so damn sensitive about their companies its not even funny. Tell either one of them that YOU didnt choose them and they act like some crazed ex girlfriend.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/u...ed-advice.html And another ... https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/m...vs-united.html
Originally Posted by sherpster
(Post 2671321)
FedEx doesnt fly at night and isnt based in Memphis.
Pot. Kettle. Black. |
Originally Posted by Larry in TN
(Post 2670141)
No, it isn't.
Less than 10% of the ORD 737 flying for October has a red-eye leg. LAX and SFO has a lot more. East coast hubs, less. It's been over two years since I flew a red-eye that I didn't trade into. I spent 15 years flying night freight. Even when I do fly a red-eye at UAL, it is so much easier. One catered leg then off to the hotel. Night freight isn't bad when you're 30 because it's relatively easy to sleep all day. By the time you're 45 you're waking up early afternoon and unable to get back to sleep. And United’s catering makes it worse, not better :) |
Just a copy and paste from my post from earlier - for those that are still considering a leap, in either direction:
BAe3100FO , Today 08:48 PM I had the blessing to be hired at both FDX and UAL. Ended up in the pool at UAL for a bit and FDX called and offered an interview and subsequently a class date 27 days later... UAL had no time frame for when they’d ever call for a class so, I did the right thing in my head... took the class at FDX. Honestly, gave it a real attempt to love FDX, but man those multi-leg night hub turns into Memphis only to sit for 3+ hours and then go back out to LAX (pick a place) at 2:45am and then try to sleep at 7:30am and show at 9pm later that day... GODBLESS!!! That flying isn’t fun. ( I hear all the time of guys/gals claiming of never flying at night - yet how does FDX have 80%ish of their departures from Memphis at 2am -4am every night except Monday happen??? It’s not just the night flying - it’s more the sit during ones circadian low that makes it so tough for the body and then try to drink enough coffee and free popcorn at the AOC to make you safe to operate and complete the mission. And then there’s the fact that a big portion of the MD-11 fleet doesn’t have real crew rest facilities....yup, international flight 9+ hours ... you get to sleep on the galley floor on a lounge chair pad about 2” thick and then comes the clear air turbulence - enjoy trying to get your crew rest bro! Oh and don’t forget to make sure to make the captains special fish dinner just right ( because you have to cook it just right in the galley oven that you have - wait for it - ZERO TRAINING ON - how to cook said such food) but it’s ok, they’ll just eat your CORKY’S dinner if you mess it up and let you have their dinner instead. But honestly it wasn’t even that that did it for me... I just took that as typical new guy hazing and laughed and said “thank you sir, may I have another “ But what really got to me, is when I got to the point that my body was so jacked up that I’d bring a “do no disturb” sign from a hotel and put it outside the guest room door when I got home from a week of Reserve or a crappy week of night hub turns and tell my wife and kids DO NOT WAKE ME UNLESS THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE!!! And damn near mean it! ~ 18+ hours later I’d be ok, but I slept thru my daughters recital or gymnastics meet. And the feelings of guilt never would make up for the fact that in just a few months I’d be making “HUGE MONEY “ on 2nd year pay... at what point does quality of life trump that big pay check that all us pilots soo desperately work for??? WELL for me it took a look around and to run into folks I knew and used to work with, that were happy to go to work and fly vs those that looked tired, grumpy and overall just not healthy and I knew the choice I had to make. Money/pensions can’t buy quality of life during the most important years of your life! - I enjoy flying again and especially the sunrise!!! For each person, there is your own choice - no one can tell you what’s right for you... just know I’ve lived it and it wasn’t for me. One day we’ll all look back and know we made the right decision - but for now make one that is for family and health vs money and first-class dead heads (are you with your family during that time?) |
Originally Posted by BAe3100FO
(Post 2676827)
Just a copy and paste from my post from earlier - for those that are still considering a leap, in either direction:
BAe3100FO , Today 08:48 PM I had the blessing to be hired at both FDX and UAL. Ended up in the pool at UAL for a bit and FDX called and offered an interview and subsequently a class date 27 days later... UAL had no time frame for when they’d ever call for a class so, I did the right thing in my head... took the class at FDX. Honestly, gave it a real attempt to love FDX, but man those multi-leg night hub turns into Memphis only to sit for 3+ hours and then go back out to LAX (pick a place) at 2:45am and then try to sleep at 7:30am and show at 9pm later that day... GODBLESS!!! That flying isn’t fun. ( I hear all the time of guys/gals claiming of never flying at night - yet how does FDX have 80%ish of their departures from Memphis at 2am -4am every night except Monday happen??? It’s not just the night flying - it’s more the sit during ones circadian low that makes it so tough for the body and then try to drink enough coffee and free popcorn at the AOC to make you safe to operate and complete the mission. And then there’s the fact that a big portion of the MD-11 fleet doesn’t have real crew rest facilities....yup, international flight 9+ hours ... you get to sleep on the galley floor on a lounge chair pad about 2” thick and then comes the clear air turbulence - enjoy trying to get your crew rest bro! Oh and don’t forget to make sure to make the captains special fish dinner just right ( because you have to cook it just right in the galley oven that you have - wait for it - ZERO TRAINING ON - how to cook said such food) but it’s ok, they’ll just eat your CORKY’S dinner if you mess it up and let you have their dinner instead. But honestly it wasn’t even that that did it for me... I just took that as typical new guy hazing and laughed and said “thank you sir, may I have another “ But what really got to me, is when I got to the point that my body was so jacked up that I’d bring a “do no disturb” sign from a hotel and put it outside the guest room door when I got home from a week of Reserve or a crappy week of night hub turns and tell my wife and kids DO NOT WAKE ME UNLESS THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE!!! And damn near mean it! ~ 18+ hours later I’d be ok, but I slept thru my daughters recital or gymnastics meet. And the feelings of guilt never would make up for the fact that in just a few months I’d be making “HUGE MONEY “ on 2nd year pay... at what point does quality of life trump that big pay check that all us pilots soo desperately work for??? WELL for me it took a look around and to run into folks I knew and used to work with, that were happy to go to work and fly vs those that looked tired, grumpy and overall just not healthy and I knew the choice I had to make. Money/pensions can’t buy quality of life during the most important years of your life! - I enjoy flying again and especially the sunrise!!! For each person, there is your own choice - no one can tell you what’s right for you... just know I’ve lived it and it wasn’t for me. One day we’ll all look back and know we made the right decision - but for now make one that is for family and health vs money and first-class dead heads (are you with your family during that time?) My experience with night freight was EXACTLY the same!! In fact I mentioned so above. Apparently this still is your fathers Fed Ex and I agree the sit at the sort facility was the part that killed me. Never again!! |
Originally Posted by Airhoss
(Post 2677529)
My experience with night freight was EXACTLY the same!! In fact I mentioned so above. Apparently this still is your fathers Fed Ex and I agree the sit at the sort facility was the part that killed me.
Never again!! Day 1, get up 7am, get kids to school, do stuff, leave house 5 PM for my commute, get to base 10pm, 11pm check in, fly red-eye to FLL, get to hotel 7am. Day 2 and 3 same thing, report around 11pm, fly to Central America and back, in the hotel 7am. Day 4 report 8pm, fly back to base, commute on red-eye home, get in at 6am, have a beer, 7am get the kids to school, 9am take a nap till 3 pm, kids are home. I do that every week, no problem with fatigue, 50 year old.... |
Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2677621)
Am I weird? My most normal trip:
Day 1, get up 7am, get kids to school, do stuff, leave house 5 PM for my commute, get to base 10pm, 11pm check in, fly red-eye to FLL, get to hotel 7am. Day 2 and 3 same thing, report around 11pm, fly to Central America and back, in the hotel 7am. Day 4 report 8pm, fly back to base, commute on red-eye home, get in at 6am, have a beer, 7am get the kids to school, 9am take a nap till 3 pm, kids are home. I do that every week, no problem with fatigue, 50 year old.... |
Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2677621)
Am I weird? My most normal trip:
Day 1, get up 7am, get kids to school, do stuff, leave house 5 PM for my commute, get to base 10pm, 11pm check in, fly red-eye to FLL, get to hotel 7am. Day 2 and 3 same thing, report around 11pm, fly to Central America and back, in the hotel 7am. Day 4 report 8pm, fly back to base, commute on red-eye home, get in at 6am, have a beer, 7am get the kids to school, 9am take a nap till 3 pm, kids are home. I do that every week, no problem with fatigue, 50 year old.... |
Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2677621)
Am I weird? My most normal trip:
Day 1, get up 7am, get kids to school, do stuff, leave house 5 PM for my commute, get to base 10pm, 11pm check in, fly red-eye to FLL, get to hotel 7am. Day 2 and 3 same thing, report around 11pm, fly to Central America and back, in the hotel 7am. Day 4 report 8pm, fly back to base, commute on red-eye home, get in at 6am, have a beer, 7am get the kids to school, 9am take a nap till 3 pm, kids are home. I do that every week, no problem with fatigue, 50 year old.... |
Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2677621)
Am I weird? My most normal trip:
Day 1, get up 7am, get kids to school, do stuff, leave house 5 PM for my commute, get to base 10pm, 11pm check in, fly red-eye to FLL, get to hotel 7am. Day 2 and 3 same thing, report around 11pm, fly to Central America and back, in the hotel 7am. Day 4 report 8pm, fly back to base, commute on red-eye home, get in at 6am, have a beer, 7am get the kids to school, 9am take a nap till 3 pm, kids are home. I do that every week, no problem with fatigue, 50 year old.... |
Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
(Post 2677645)
That physically hurt to read......you may not know it but you are most likely extremely unhealthy.
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Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2677621)
Am I weird? My most normal trip:
Day 1, get up 7am, get kids to school, do stuff, leave house 5 PM for my commute, get to base 10pm, 11pm check in, fly red-eye to FLL, get to hotel 7am. Day 2 and 3 same thing, report around 11pm, fly to Central America and back, in the hotel 7am. Day 4 report 8pm, fly back to base, commute on red-eye home, get in at 6am, have a beer, 7am get the kids to school, 9am take a nap till 3 pm, kids are home. I do that every week, no problem with fatigue, 50 year old.... |
Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2677621)
Am I weird? My most normal trip:
Day 1, get up 7am, get kids to school, do stuff, leave house 5 PM for my commute, get to base 10pm, 11pm check in, fly red-eye to FLL, get to hotel 7am. Day 2 and 3 same thing, report around 11pm, fly to Central America and back, in the hotel 7am. Day 4 report 8pm, fly back to base, commute on red-eye home, get in at 6am, have a beer, 7am get the kids to school, 9am take a nap till 3 pm, kids are home. I do that every week, no problem with fatigue, 50 year old.... |
Originally Posted by Airhoss
(Post 2677751)
Either extremly weird or so chronically fatigued you don’t know any better.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...al_Studios.jpg |
I don’t see the issue. Most healthy people drink beer at 6AM before taking the kids to school.
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Originally Posted by Duckdude
(Post 2677784)
I don’t see the issue. Most healthy people drink beer at 6AM before taking the kids to school.
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Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2677621)
Am I weird? My most normal trip:
Day 1, get up 7am, get kids to school, do stuff, leave house 5 PM for my commute, get to base 10pm, 11pm check in, fly red-eye to FLL, get to hotel 7am. Day 2 and 3 same thing, report around 11pm, fly to Central America and back, in the hotel 7am. Day 4 report 8pm, fly back to base, commute on red-eye home, get in at 6am, have a beer, 7am get the kids to school, 9am take a nap till 3 pm, kids are home. I do that every week, no problem with fatigue, 50 year old.... |
Day one, stay up for 26 hours and land the jet at hour 25 :eek:
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Originally Posted by ReadyRsv
(Post 2678325)
Day one, stay up for 26 hours and land the jet at hour 25 :eek:
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Did you carry on or call him in fatigued?
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I don't know about now. But back around 2000 a FedEx FO had a similar schedule as me flying passengers Internationally.
Yes, the hours are screwy, but you get 20 plus days off a month. If you fly domestically, (ie. want to be a Capt.). then, yes, all nighters. But a junior FO that I talked with was doing International trips on the DC-10. |
Originally Posted by worstpilotever
(Post 2678723)
Did you carry on or call him in fatigued?
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Let me rephrase, did you say anything to anyone when the capt fell asleep during the before start check list? Or is that commonplace so you said nothing and continued on with the flight?
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Originally Posted by Duckdude
(Post 2677784)
I don’t see the issue. Most healthy people drink beer at 6AM before taking the kids to school.
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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
(Post 2677645)
That physically hurt to read......you may not know it but you are most likely extremely unhealthy.
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Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2678835)
Replying to all of you who think I am a troll. I would run 7 miles every day at work too. I guess that isn't going to convince anyone that I am healthy either. As long as you can sleep when you are off it is no problem. Pilot for 20 years, worked shifts for the 10 years prior. I have called in sick for myself once a year, and I don't work if I am sick. My cholesterol could be lower but no health issues otherwise. I fly with a lot of guys younger than me who eat M&Ms the whole flight, go out for crap food and never work out, and find they have no energy.
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Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2678835)
Replying to all of you who think I am a troll. I would run 7 miles every day at work too. I guess that isn't going to convince anyone that I am healthy either. As long as you can sleep when you are off it is no problem. Pilot for 20 years, worked shifts for the 10 years prior. I have called in sick for myself once a year, and I don't work if I am sick. My cholesterol could be lower but no health issues otherwise. I fly with a lot of guys younger than me who eat M&Ms the whole flight, go out for crap food and never work out, and find they have no energy.
Diet and exercise are great but not a silver bullet against decades or hard core abuse to the body due to the demands of a punishing airline schedule. |
Originally Posted by worstpilotever
(Post 2678810)
Let me rephrase, did you say anything to anyone when the capt fell asleep during the before start check list? Or is that commonplace so you said nothing and continued on with the flight?
You can make yourself lie in bed for hours in the afternoon but you can't make yourself sleep. I did that type of flying for fifteen years. I am very glad to be away from it now. |
Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2678835)
Replying to all of you who think I am a troll. I would run 7 miles every day at work too. I guess that isn't going to convince anyone that I am healthy either. As long as you can sleep when you are off it is no problem. Pilot for 20 years, worked shifts for the 10 years prior. I have called in sick for myself once a year, and I don't work if I am sick. My cholesterol could be lower but no health issues otherwise. I fly with a lot of guys younger than me who eat M&Ms the whole flight, go out for crap food and never work out, and find they have no energy.
Not that you care but I don’t believe it one bit. It’s biologically impossible to run a schedule like that and have no issue with fatigue. Had you said you were tired or that you slept 25 hours after those four days or something thereof, it would be more believable. Anyway, enjoy your early death. |
Humans may be diurnal, but we HAVE been doing shift work for generations.
Yes, shift work is physically hard and has medically-proven downsides to both overall health, weight, and lifespan...but there are ways and opportunities to mitigate those effects for a pilot that doctors, nurses, police officers, factory workers, etc. simply don’t have. I’d bet cargo pilots as a group are far healthier than 8-5 workers as a group. Me? Don’t like hub turns, perhaps because I don’t nap well/easily in a sleep room. I personally prefer turns/out-and-backs that slide my body 4-5 hours vs. flipping day and night. |
Avi8tor4life, pm sent
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Originally Posted by Larry in TN
(Post 2679012)
It was discussed. It, and situations like it, were common.
You can make yourself lie in bed for hours in the afternoon but you can't make yourself sleep. I did that type of flying for fifteen years. I am very glad to be away from it now. |
Originally Posted by Airhoss
(Post 2679070)
For the same company as I.....
Some should read the accident report of the Kalitta DC8 at Gitmo to see what fatigue can do. |
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
(Post 2679050)
I’d bet cargo pilots as a group are far healthier than 8-5 workers as a group.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk |
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