Reserve idea
 

I was wondering if anyone knows the history of why reserve "guarantee" has always been so low(crap pay), at least since I've been a part of the industry.

I don't think that anyone can deny that reserve flying sucks, no matter if you are at United, SWA, AA, or Jetblue. By nature, not knowing your schedule and having to plan around the "unknown" stinks. Why not give people an incentive to bid it?

Why, in this industry don't we reward those that are willing to take a crappy "unknown" schedule by giving them a high guarantee.

If we were to negotiate a high guarantee for reserve, this would have multiple beneficial effects:

1) local people would bid reserve - you get paid the same whether you work or not, so if you're local, why not bid it? If you gave it a nice guarantee, then more senior bidders would bid it. You might get a nice cross section of seniority bidding it, instead of the most junior.

2) If you have a high guarantee, some people could actually afford to move into those high "cost of living" cities, thus almost no one actually having to commute to reserve, which would increase QOL for commuters, and QOL for locals since there would be some benefit to bidding reserve(ie Win-Win)

3) The number of reserve pilots would be minimized by the company because it would cost them more, thus incentivize them to build more productive line pairings.

4) If reserve went more senior because of the higher guarantee, then if you could hold a BES, then you would be reasonably sure that you could hold a line if you wanted at 100% in a BES. A lineholder with a 72 hr line can always pick up an extra trip if they want more pay (not always as easy for Widebody guys).

I don't want to go into a discussion on what number would be the right number of hours guarantee, so as to not negotiate in public, but I would argue there is a good number out there where reserve would no longer be the worst of the worst. This would be a cost item in negotiations, but when you consider it in the grand scheme of things, wouldn't it be a win for everyone? You'd either be a lineholder with the ability to pick up extra flying if available (a good thing) or at worst be making a high guarantee. Lineholder productivity would go up since more senior bidders would bid reserve.

I think raising the guarantee to a nice level would be a simple fix to reserves to make it more palatable and hopefully incentivize locals to bid it.

It's a lot easier than making a whole bunch of new reserve work rules that potentially will **** off lineholders or make for really unproductive reserves which would probably cost a lot more than a high guarantee.

What am I missing?

The inertia of entrenched ideas, that's what. The only people interested in improving reserve, are those stuck with it and those who bid it intentionally. The current MEC seems to have an inkling that some tweaks are necessary, but I'm not holding my breath.

Some pilots are habitually myopic and ignore even very recent history. UA lurched backward several times since I've been here, displacing thousands of pilots, yet "reserve is a choice" is still their mantra. Your topic has been beaten to death on this and the other forum. Yet, reserve is still second-class citizenship around here.

Keep an eye on the hornet's nest you just posted and you'll get your answer.

Sound good to me.

Make it pay high enough that locals would prefer it.

Reserve should pay 5hrs every day.

Maybe reserve pay could float month to month. When PBS bidding opens it could show what the pay guarantee is for that month based on some calculation of what the lineholder lines are worth (average, low, or some other number). Seeing that number a lineholder could choose to bid reserve or not that month, providing some flexibility for all.

I haven’t seen anything negative on this idea yet...

I can understand why the company wouldn’t want to pay a high guarantee, but if it would make reserve go to locals because of the pay incentive, then it seems like a good idea.

Seems like it would be a good use of negotiating capital, without a huge change to rules that the company would try and circumvent unless we have ironclad language.

70-80% here won’t give up a nickle of their hourly rate to spend on reserve changes.

Like a log in the punchbowl, when it floats low it's the junior maggot who's stuck with a horrendous paycheck. When it floats high, the junior maggot is stuck with a horrendous line.

If the reserve guarantees were higher than the lower built lines, then they would go more senior (in theory) than a junior lineholder. This makes previous junior reserve guys happy since now they are junior lineholders instead of commuting to reserve.

Previous junior lineholders now get a higher value paycheck in exchange for being on reserve, or if reserve goes even higher than junior lineholder, than previous junior lineholder becomes mid level lineholder.

The only people that I could see that wouldn’t benefit from this are the most senior widebody Captains. Most pilots here at United will never be a widebody CA.

Agree 80 HR guarantee would do a lot!

In theory, that was in practice on the 777 in DCA. Lines were being built to a low average with little if any open time. Reserve seniority was well into the lineholder range. They tended to make more money with the guarantee plus shortcall counts and rarely worked.

Reserve guarantee is paid higher then lineholder guarantee (73 vs 70)

In slow months a reserve can make more then a lineholder. Case in point this month for me as a senior lineholder. My PBS award is 70:36. Nothing works for Trip trading (either the trips pay less or days don’t work for what I need off) so I’m stuck with my original schedule.

C’est la vie.

Back in the way past (Contract 2000) Reserve and Lineholder guarantee both were 75 hours (77 in a flex month). Lineholder schedules were built to a max of 81 (83 in a flex month). The most a lineholder could make in a month was 85 hours due to any excess going into the bank (which would fill your pay for ensuing months towards that 85 hour Cap)

Bankruptcy sucked a lot of that away, especially for the narrow bodies. Went from 12/13 days off to 10 with 2 moveable. Guarantees dropped as well.

But even post bankruptcy they still built FSB lines (bid on monthly) that paid 90 hours. Those lines went SENIOR. The company can still advertise and build monthly FSB lines under our current contract but has chosen not to.

There are certainly areas in which to improve upon the reserve system but there are also areas the company wants to improve from their perspective (early reports on day 1 ring a bell?). So be careful what you wish for because it may get worse in a different way.

Do whatever you want with reserve. People will always complain about how lousy it is, and then as soon as they can hold a line, will put in a bid to the next highest pay band and then complain about how lousy reserve is!

I thought I heard that delta’s reserve pay is based on the LPA for that BES for that month. Anybody know if that’s true. Wouldn’t be bad as long as there was still a minimum that it couldn’t go below.

Some will. But the fact is our old reserve system was superior to this one. Not the old old one, the old one. If we simply returned to that it would be a big improvement for most local guys on reserve and a huge one for those who commute.

I'll not waste my time detailing the differences as I've already done it a half a dozen times in the last 6 or 7 years. A simple search ought to display the numerous threads.

There are some very simple changes that need to take place that would make reserve life way more tolerable.

1) make it so there is no 6 day silo. If you are good for 6 days you are still in the 5 day silo so you can aggressive pick up a 4 day trip on day 1 instead of being forced to get assigned SC or FSB.

2) NO freebie SC or FSB conversions. Either that or after the 2nd unused assignment, each conversion pays 2 hours add pay. Something of that nature.

3) make it so scheduling can’t target people (and circumvent seniority) by choosing the silo that each SC or FSB assignment gets. There have been numerous times I wanted a certain assignment but couldn’t get it because it wasn’t silo/silo-1 and someone junior got it who may not have even wanted it.

Just these changes alone would make reserve infinitely more palatable.

In day to day reserve life, a change to this might be one that helps the most.

This is what happens at Delta, reserve guarantee is ALV -2 hrs (limit of 72hrs - 80 hrs) for the month so depending on what the ALV is when PBS bid pack comes out, will determine how much reserve pays (and how senior it will go).

What we understand UAL has that we want is if you are called and put on short call for a day, you all get +1 hr added in pay to your guarantee. All Delta gets is 1hr credit towards the month so when you get to ALV you are considered "full" and can't be used any more, so if on a fleet where reserve usage is low, the 1hr credit doesn't mean much.

:confused:

1. It would cost the company more money.

Why would they incentivize people to do something they are already doing for free (because they have no other choice).

Airlines are businesses and have little if any interest in improving pilot QOL. Just dollars and cents.

And that is why we are members of a union. Just dollars, cents, and QOL for PILOTS.

2017-
UAL reported full-year net income of $2.1 billion, diluted earnings per share of $7.02, pre-tax earnings of $3.0 billion and pre-tax margin of 7.9 percent. Excluding special charges and income tax adjustments, UAL reported full-year net income of $2.1 billion, diluted earnings per share of $6.76, pre-tax earnings of $3.2 billion and pre-tax margin of 8.4 percent.

2016-
UAL reported full-year net income of $2.3 billion, diluted earnings per share of $6.85, pre-tax earnings of $3.8 billion and pre-tax margin of 10.4 percent. Excluding special items, UAL reported full-year net income of $2.9 billion, diluted earnings per share of $8.65, pre-tax earnings of $4.5 billion and pre-tax margin of 12.2 percent.

2015-
UAL reported full-year net income of $4.5 billion, or $11.88 per diluted share, excluding special items. Including special items, UAL reported full-year net income of $7.3 billion. These results include a nonrecurring $3.1 billion non-cash benefit associated with the reversal of the company's income tax valuation allowance.

Are you an ALPA member? :confused:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1la8dd04tL.jpg

For your reading enjoyment (cough) and edification. Please take a gander...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...422-story.html

Here's the article from the link I posted...


Airline CEO Jeff Smisek started 2010 with a vow not to receive any salary until Continental Airlines turned a profit, and ended the year with a pay raise and $4.4 million in total compensation after pulling off a merger with United Airlines.

Smisek, who is CEO of the merged carrier’s parent company, United Continental Holdings Inc., received salary of $791,250 and $3.6 million in other incentives at year's end. Directors determined that Continental would have been profitable for the year and also bumped up Smisek’s base pay following the Oct. 1 merger to $975,000, according to a proxy statement filed Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

But Smisek’s compensation was dwarfed, on paper, by the $16.8 million awarded to Glenn Tilton, his pre-merger counterpart at Chicago-based United Airlines.

Tilton and other senior executives reaped hefty rewards for consummating a deal that created the world’s largest carrier and contributed to an 85 percent jump in the airline’s share price. United also exceeded its targets for customer satisfaction, on-time arrivals and financial performance for the year.

In addition to his base pay of $822,999, Tilton also received $2.7 million in a discretionary bonus awarded in September, shortly before the merger closed.

Tilton agreed to convert the cash severance he was eligible to receive by stepping down as United CEO into 207,157 restricted shares, with a grant date value of $5.1 million. The shares will vest at the end of next year, or earlier if he leaves his chairman’s role due to death, disability or without “cause,” according to the SEC filing.

Three senior United executives who left the company following the merger also pocketed ample pay and severance packages.

Former United president John Tague received $11.7 million in total compensation, including a $1.6 million bonus awarded in September. Former chief financial officer Kathryn Mikells received $9.4 million, including a $1.3 million bonus; while Graham Atkinson, president of the carrier’s Mileage Plus program, walked away with $6.9 million, including an $888,376 bonus.

In addition to health and life insurance benefits, the departed United executives are also eligible for lifetime flight benefits, elite frequent-flier status and lifetime membership in the company’s airport lounge clubs, according to the SEC filing.

[email protected]


United CEOs reaped rich rewards for 2010 merger - Chicago Tribune

Just dollar and cents, indeed.

Look we all know from your hundreds of post that your bitter and you can’t let it go but the BOD determines executive compensation. It’s done it’s over Smisex is gone. Let it go for Gods sake. We are a business trying to make a profit and a return to our shareholders. It’s not personal. Reserves aren’t gonna make 85 hrs to sit home and not fly, ain’t gonna happen. Our union will negotiate a fiscally responsibile contract with some tweaks improvements and increases to pay, enjoy it let the past go and move on. LET IT GO.

Nice tie.

You may be happy to accept the scraps, but many of us are not. All I am doing is illustrating how profligate airlines have been while cheating labor out of every nickel they could, under the guise of reorganization and "shared sacrifice". To "save the company" and all that. Utter horseradish.

I am not bitter. I do not expect to sit reserve and make 85 hours without flying. That is just crap. This may surprise you, but I am a line holder. Does that forbid me from opining on improving that aspect of the contract? I love this job and I busted my esophagus to get it. However, the difference between you and I is that I am unwilling to settle for scraps. I know what we had, and I know what they took without reasonable justification. They took it because they could.

I choose to remain informed and to highlight some of the more egregious elements of labor's struggle for the benefit of open-minded and curious FNG's, as well as the willfully ignorant. If you would like to forgive and forget that is your choice. Every single CEO, (and their extensive teams) has been richly rewarded for their work here, no matter how poorly the airline performed or its stock price. Does that not rankle your epidermis?

This has zero to do with letting anything go. Rather, it has everything to do with moving forward armed with knowledge and laser focus on how we got to this position. I cannot change the past. However, we can affect the future IF we hang together. We know from your hundreds of posts that you'd work for peanuts because this job strokes your ego. Well many of us are beyond that level of self-gratification. You hold an ATP for goodness sake. Clearly, it is worth far more to me than it is to you. Yet, you just told the company that more scraps are AOK. If you don't learn from the past, you're F'd in this business. Have you not learned that?

We're in negotiations. Put on your war paint! Even if it's just for show. Zoomie's post was full of good ideas.

I do not want my union negotiating a fiscally responsible contract with some tweaks here and there. I want my union to negotiate a contract with a value $1 less than which the company would never sign. My concern is not with company profits but rather my compensation/QOL and returning it to my family.

Obtw , it's getting hot back in the cabin.

...And the company's negotiators bargain with ALPA to determine pilot compensation. What's your point?

Do you think Mr Munoz and Mr Kirby go into negotiations on their personal compensation with the mindset that they want to cut their salary so that United can make more money? If you do, I have a bridge to sell you...

All we're saying is we're in the best profitability and position to negotiate a union contract right now, and raising reserve guarantee to a level where current local lineholders would actually bid it and prevent junior guys in BES from needing to commute to reserve would be a win for most pilots at United. It's also a simple metric that doesn't require difficult language that can be misinterpreted by a mediator after we sign a contract.

You say that 85 hrs is ridiculous to pay a guy/gal on reserve? If pilots thought the current model were fair, why don't people bid it? Instead, people are stuck with it, or you get the response, "You chose to sit reserve" You assume a pilot on reserve is getting paid to sit at home and "not fly" is what we pay a reserve pilot for.

No. A reserve pilot is paid for his/her availability. You are paying for a pilot to have an unknown schedule. It's hard to buy tickets to a football game or concert tickets, or even know if you can be there for your kids soccer game or theater performance. It's hard to run a business on the side if you might be called out of the country for 4 days.

There's a cost to this model. Who are you to say that 85 hrs is too much?

I asked everyone to forgo numbers in this discussion due to section 6 negotiations, but you choose to throw numbers out there anyway which shows your disrespect for the process. My guess is you're super senior or you are at the seniority where you are comfortable and have no plans of moving further up.

We are not the only career field with this type of model. I have friends who are doctors that have "call" that get paid for their availability too. They get compensated well, whether someone comes into the emergency room or not.

Companies only job isn't a "profit and a return to it's shareholders". If it were, then sell the whole airline, cash out, and put the money into an industry with a much higher ROI.

Why does "any" position at a union company have to suck on all aspects(ie reserve). My original point stands, make reserve a good enough deal so that it goes to local pilots who would be happy to sit at home with an unknown schedule until they are called.

We all recognize this is a "first world" problem and we all have it pretty good at United, but let's "make hay while the sun shines".

Please everyone stop selling the profession short.

Not sure what the LPA is, but at Delta, the ALV (average Line Value) is what PBS will build the average line to (in credit) for the month. Reserves get ALV-2 with a limit of (72hrs - 80hrs) for the month.
There are months where the ALV is 72 and reserves get 72, and there are months where the ALV is 84 and the reserves get 80.

Ironically, you can get a line built that is below ALV (obviously that's why it's the "average") so I've had it where PBS built a line worth 69hrs (and I'd have to pick something out of open time to get more) whereas if I had bid reserve I'd at least been assigned 72hrs out of the gate.

What Delta reserves want that UAL supposedly has is the extra hour OVER guarantee if you stand a short call with no usage. Right now Delta only gets 1 hr credit TOWARDS guarantee for the month, nothing extra.

And yes, Delta was still able to make a profit despite paying their reserves 80 hr guarantee in some months!

Ya LPA is Line Production Average... Same as your ALV

Sorry, but QOL does make a huge difference. It directly affects how available a reserve pilot is. Horrible QOL directly leads to fatigue, and sick calls. Yes, these have a calculable cost. You don't' think both the union and company know exactly how much QOL costs? If not, then we need a new negotiating team.

It's all about how much ALPA QOL is willing to accept, and how much the company wants to pay for it--meaning productivity until sick leave goes up.

Direct cause and affect. :rolleyes:

"Reserve is a Choice". I remember that during the BK years!

What’s interesting about the whole reserve debate is this, times and life styles have changed since the first reserve ideas were penned.

When I started very few people commuted to work from other parts of the country and living in base on reserve wasn’t bad at all. These days things are far different and whether it be by “choice” or not people commute to reserve.

Now what are we willing to negotiate for, higher over all pay, QOL for reserves, RJs, and the list grows...

Of course we can have it all?

The reality is that someone will always be willing to bid to RSV Capt or widebody FO or to take a job as a new hire on RSV. You don’t need any extra incentive to get someone to be on RSV.

Yea ron, someone would take a job as a newhire here for 0$ first year too.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try and improve QOL/pay for all positions and situations.

No guarantee at SWA. Every reserve day pays 6 if you don’t get called and 6.5min per day rig if you do get called. Full trip rigs apply. 15days off min per month.

I was able to give most of my reserve away or trade it for trips because it’s a good deal if you live in base. I commute.

We only have SC though (2hr callout) and no LC. The plus side of that is fewer pilots on reserve. No airport standby.

It’s an AM or PM window for the month of 14hrs and built in blocks of 3 or 4 days at a time.

There’s a few details that could be improved on, but overall it’s a simple good system that pays well. Pay can only go up if you get called, so there’s incentive for pilots living in base to bid it.

At least they’re honest about not having long call, versus having it in theory and converting it all to SC. The am/pm window is a good thought too. Circadian rhythm, predictability.

I believe their entire scheduling philosophy is built of the AM/PM idea. Even their pairings are built as either all AM or PM.

Speak for yourself Maco. I’m not sure you can objectively say that; unless you’ve seen the negotiating committee’s contract surveys.

I haven’t sat a day of reserve since early probation, I’m currently at about 30%, and don’t intend to sit reserve ever again (if it’s my choice), BUT the number one item for improvement on my survey was reserve rules. What is money without QOL? 20% of our company sits reserve in perpetuity.

Taking away long call reserve would be a "game changer" for a majority who bid reserve at Delta as even the locals don't like being chained to a 2hr leash more than a couple of times a month.

Dropping reserve days (other than weekends and holidays) is not a problem at Delta, as long as you don't mind the proportional drop in your guarantee.

I believe that SWA pilots can pick up open time while on reserve to boost pay (not confirmed) which would allow reserve pilots to adjust their schedule more I'm sure.

My comment was tongue in cheek and was based on the amount of negative noise here on APC the last time a reserve thread came up. I think it was titled "Fixes to Reserve". I have spent a lot of time on reserve at UAL, and much of that was not by "choice", unless choosing to come to work here was a choice.

Your average line holder, who lives in base, and who never plans on sitting on reserve again would rather see financial gains, than QOL gains in reserve rules.

I think we're on the same page.

My sentiments exactly. Hoping, but not expecting, the current negotiations are working down this line if thought.

Can do this here with some restrictions (plus in trip pool, leave no 1-day blocks). Occasionally run into scheduler who says they “don’t feel like it.” Just call back after shift change. PDR response is it’s not on the UPA. I disagree and have argued successfully to get drops. No guarantee though.