and so I asked Oscar a question...
10-21-2018, 08:15 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by ThePenguin328
Agree to disagree. The average line Captain is a position of seniority not necessarily skill or of master airmanship. It's certainly not a position of evaluation like that of a TK instructor or LCA.
Protect at all cost is setting the bar a little high. I'd say give everyone some respect and a chance to succeed. Each person on our seniority list has worked their way through the system (ex-military or civilian) to earn a place at a major airline. Not everyone gets this far to be in the cockpit of mainline jet. There are enough places to reach out for help that average line Captains should not be expected to be the new hire police.
Protect at all cost is setting the bar a little high. I'd say give everyone some respect and a chance to succeed. Each person on our seniority list has worked their way through the system (ex-military or civilian) to earn a place at a major airline. Not everyone gets this far to be in the cockpit of mainline jet. There are enough places to reach out for help that average line Captains should not be expected to be the new hire police.
10-21-2018, 08:48 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,803
Originally Posted by ThePenguin328
Agree to disagree. The average line Captain is a position of seniority not necessarily skill or of master airmanship. It's certainly not a position of evaluation like that of a TK instructor or LCA.
Protect at all cost is setting the bar a little high. I'd say give everyone some respect and a chance to succeed. Each person on our seniority list has worked their way through the system (ex-military or civilian) to earn a place at a major airline. Not everyone gets this far to be in the cockpit of mainline jet. There are enough places to reach out for help that average line Captains should not be expected to be the new hire police.
Protect at all cost is setting the bar a little high. I'd say give everyone some respect and a chance to succeed. Each person on our seniority list has worked their way through the system (ex-military or civilian) to earn a place at a major airline. Not everyone gets this far to be in the cockpit of mainline jet. There are enough places to reach out for help that average line Captains should not be expected to be the new hire police.
Move the goalposts in this thread all ya want. If a new hire makes a Captain work WAY more than they should, maybe in fact, they shouldn’t be here. I agree that it’s not a line captain’s role to make that decision. A probationary report is a way to either make that Captain look like a tool, or more appropriately paint a picture for future suitability.
Last edited by awax; 10-21-2018 at 09:28 PM.
10-22-2018, 02:10 AM
#83
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Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 694
Anecdotally, there’s no one-strike policy for probationary pilots. You’re not torpedoing a career with a critique on a sheet and if that individual has a steady stream of repeat issues they are doing it to themselves and that’s got to represent a minuscule number. To think that Captains should be silent or that they lack the capacity to observe and critique personal or professional issues in probationary pilots shows a pretty low regard for them. Mentor, provide in-person feedback - like we’re all required to do after every flight - and if needed, take additional steps. The problems are probably fixable if they get attention but only if they get that attention. Or we just ignore it because hey it’s just our families riding in the back right?
10-22-2018, 08:38 AM
#84
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Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 859
Maybe fill out the report and instead of sending it to the boss hand it to the FO. Some people are oblivious and as a 3 year reserve I can tell you, many captains are in that group, as well.
Ironically, my 6 month CP sit down mostly focused on how I survived flying with three “known” captains. Haha.
Ironically, my 6 month CP sit down mostly focused on how I survived flying with three “known” captains. Haha.
10-22-2018, 09:55 AM
#85
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,803
Originally Posted by ReadyRsv
Maybe fill out the report and instead of sending it to the boss hand it to the FO. Some people are oblivious and as a 3 year reserve I can tell you, many captains are in that group, as well.
10-22-2018, 10:45 AM
#86
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 705
Originally Posted by Chuck D
Anecdotally, there’s no one-strike policy for probationary pilots. You’re not torpedoing a career with a critique on a sheet and if that individual has a steady stream of repeat issues they are doing it to themselves and that’s got to represent a minuscule number. To think that Captains should be silent or that they lack the capacity to observe and critique personal or professional issues in probationary pilots shows a pretty low regard for them. Mentor, provide in-person feedback - like we’re all required to do after every flight - and if needed, take additional steps. The problems are probably fixable if they get attention but only if they get that attention. Or we just ignore it because hey it’s just our families riding in the back right?
Nothing prevents a Captain from making a quick call to Professional Standards before firing off an unsat probationary report on a pilot with little if any protection. He or she now has the benefit of input from Professional Standards.
Looking at it another way, how would one feel if the shoe was on the other foot?
10-22-2018, 11:05 AM
#87
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Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 694
Anecdotally, meaning I’m familiar with a small number of specific examples. One that we should all be thankful is no longer here and one who had a negative experience with an individual CA, had no issues with the CPO, and is successful and fully deserving of wearing the uniform.
It’s a probationary period for a reason and I’m glad we have it and we all go through it. I’d love to see an example of an airline that foregoes that period and why that’s the preferred method.
It’s a probationary period for a reason and I’m glad we have it and we all go through it. I’d love to see an example of an airline that foregoes that period and why that’s the preferred method.
10-22-2018, 12:19 PM
#89
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Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 694
Originally Posted by Floyd
My history has always taught me to go to Alpa first in regards to another pilot. I'm not insinuating that we should mask the issue. If truly needed, the company will be involved.
10-22-2018, 08:33 PM
#90
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Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: B737
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by Galaxy5
I’m curious as to where you’re drawing your perspective on new hires here...do you fly with many of them?
