This is the argument. Pay vs. profit sharing. Profit sharing is a relatively new thing. A way for management to reduce regular pay.

You don't think they play with the numbers? Absolutely they do. Every time any of the unions are in contract talks, management hides money and profits. Lots of ways to do it. In the past, management used this to buy new ground equipment. See a new bag cart? We must be in contract talks. Those things are indestructible. I know, they try!

We all would be better off with higher pay, instead of profit sharing. Times are good right now, but they won't be for long. That extra check will go to zero real quick.

This is why profit sharing is based on profit before write downs and taxes. If they’re hiding money then they’re falsifying SEC reports.

Considering the hole Smisek and the post merger mgmt dug, we are killing it. They had several years of **** poor mgmt to dig us out of. It’s like losing 25% in your 401k, you need a 50% return to break even. They’re doing it and the performance numbers show it. We were so far behind our peers when they took over they had to cover twice the ground to get back up to even.

I for one am optimistic and I genuinely believe we have a mgmt team that wants to run a winning airline. Do not misconstrue that to think I’m willing to cave an inch on scope or any other concession.

This is where a little knowledge is dangerous.

Baggage carts are part of capital balance sheet calculations. They are not part of profit and revenue. Accounting rules do not make it easy to alter profit. I'm not saying accountants can't fudge figures, but I am saying I don't believe this to be true of United.

If you study the company's expenses one begins to get a clearer picture of what is happening. For the full year of 2017 United spent over $1 billion more on landing fees and airport rent and $600 million more on salaries, benefits, and payroll taxes. Delta flies out of Atlanta, Minni, and Salt Lake and United flies out of Newark, Ohare, and Dulles. Delta's workforce is larger than United's, but less than a 1/4 of Delta's workforce is unionized most of United's workforce is unionized.

Bottom line Delta has a $ 1 billion advantage right out of the gate. It's not nefarious. It's business 101.

You are correct though that pushing more pay into Profit Sharing can help a company reduce labor costs when times get slow by reducing total pay for labor. I, for one, do not see this as a bad idea. We want our corporations to have some ability to adapt when times are slim and share when times are good.

As mentioned above , I have noticed a major change in our ground equipment as of the last 6 months . Many many many new belt loaders and other bag karts etc. including the new belt loaders that have a track system that go into the cargo Dept in various bin sections on a serious of rollers . Can’t imgaine the cost of some of this equipment.

May have nothing to do with contract talks or profit sharing as mentioned but man I have noticed tons of it in mutple cities .

We got a ton of new stuff leading into bankruptcy as well. Tugs, de-ice trucks, very expensive stuff. Of course, I'm sure it was all above board.

$395M is what was added to the delta profit sharing pool in Q3. The 2018 pool is close to 1B right now.

Jeez. How about higher pay rates AND we keep our profit sharing!! DAL came after their pilot's PS after altering it for all their non union employees. The DAL pilots smartly told them to pound sand. Let's not give away jack sheet.

Thanks for the clarification. My bad, but boy it makes it all the worse $250 mil for our pool and $1 bil for theirs. Ouch!

I don't find that surprising in the least, hiding money? It's also a pragmatic approach though. When you have the money, that's the time to spend it!

I would love to be optimistic again, but I've been burned too many times. :cool:

4 percent UAL
16 percent DL

Your thoughts?