Delta Snap Up
 

Anyone know if the Delta Snap up provision in our contract extension is still in place? Curious about when Delta gets their new contract since it appears our new contract is a long way off. No one I asked has had a definitive yes or no on this.

Thanks

We don’t snap up to any new Delta rate. They had to get their new rate before some time in 2018 for us to get the snap up, which they did. New Delta rates beyond that time won’t give us any sort of snap up unfortunately.

Hopefully we will have a new contract before Delta.

Thanks for clarifying. I’m not holding my breath.

We are actually a lot closer to a new deal than Delta is. They just had their openers. By all accounts, we are further along than most of the previous contract negotiations.

I hope you’re right. That’s not what I’ve been hearing however.

I think it would put a lot of pressure on the company if Delta got a contract first, and I don’t think they want that.

We're very close. We'll have a contract any day now.























;)

Correct....we just opened first week in April. Amenable date is 31 Dec 2019, so we still have a ways to go.

Best of luck to you guys....hope you knock it out of the park!!!

Might I ask from who?

Also, our pay rates including DAL snap up language is in the contract.

I don’t think it matters how close we are. We are all making pretty good money and I can’t imagine any of us being dumb enough to sign off on a contract that is not fI’ll retro. So I hope you are all as patient as I am in waiting for a good contract and saying no to a bad one. As far as the DAL snap up it is gone because the date in 2018 has already passed.

Sure like the "mushroom" treatment we're getting as far as UAL ALPA goes. Not really thrilled with the silence and absolute lack of information from both our NC and our MEC.

MEC update from NC had nice color chart with where we are and where we stand on section 5 and 20 which were big hurtles? Maybe less time on web boards and more time communicating with your reps. The data has been put out and seems both sides are moving forward at a good pace. If we hit a wall it will be communicated as such.


Chairman

See this I don’t understand. With the performance of the company and the economy, we are CLEARLY due a beneficial contract in EVERY section. So why are we content to just sit on our hands and let the company drag it out with ZERO pressure what so ever?? If we were looking at concessions, sure! Take as long as you want!

But each day we don’t have a new contract saves the company money and costs us money. Retro schmetro. One; it’s never FULL retro, and two, many of the benefits I expect aren’t pay related. So each day we go without a contract is a loss for us. Yet there appears to be NO pressure to get this done in the media, picketing etc. They can just drag their feet with no consequences that I see. The company expressed that a contract would be on time: they failed to deliver. I would LOVE to see less patience and more action for my union dues.

Rant over

Remember this is a negotiation. Both parties have to tentatively agree to all sections prior to the MEC deciding whether or not to send it to the Pilots for ratification. We got a 4% pay raise this last January, so we are not losing money yet. Delta did get full retro and helped to bring that term back into the lexicon for negotiations. We (including the MEC & NC) should not be in a hurry to just sign a deal!!! We want a good deal without obvious pitfalls. We could probably have a deal tomorrow if we were willing to sell our scope. I’m not willing to do that for any price!!! Section one is priceless!!!

All good points BUT why wait until 2021/22. Oscar wanted a deal done before Jan 19 guess what no deal. So what's the plan? Sing around the camp fire and hold hands? I'm pretty amazed at the weak sheep I fly with. In fact some pilots would take a pay cut it seems! Def not liking the attitude on the line.

Sorry Chairman, I've been told otherwise. Company's dug their heels in with Scope and the big ticket items are not being discussed.

Transparencies a wonderful thing and perhaps those in charge can start using it.

Transparency = lack of information.

1. MEC put out a comprehensive chart showing progress or lack thereof in every single section.

2. Insler wrote a blurb recently about the company’s slow pace/intent to move forward

So, it’s not a lack of transparency based on a scarcity of information.

Perhaps it’s that the MEC graphical updates aren’t in a narrative form, like your source. Or that their info doesn’t match what you believe is happening, therefore it doesn’t seem “informative” to you?

The info put out so far by the union indicates to me that the company is far apart from the pilot group on key issues. Agreements have been obtained in substance on issues that are on the lower side of the importance scale.

Given the pace of negotiations, and the lack of agreement on key issues to me would indicate it's going to be a while.

So, patience and resolve are the orders of the day.

That being said, those two qualities are not welded together. Resolve is not wavering, but patience could wane should the can be kicked too long and too far down the road.

Why aren't we going on the offensive? Insler should be on CNBC, Facebook, Twitter, etc... describing what the pilots of United have sacrificed over the years! Instead, we wait around until the next downturn, throw our hands up in the air and say "oh well, I guess we have to cave on scope"

There are two kinds of people: Those who can extrapolate incomplete data.

Money is one of the least important sections to me in the new contract. Work rules, reserve rules, vacation and training value, LTD, and scope are the things I’m interested in. Retro doesn’t touch any of that. So the longer we wait for a new contract, the longer we go without these critical improvements. And these all cost money.... money the company saves every day at OUR expense. So “patience” to me seems counter intuitive.

I’m certainly not suggesting we rush to a crappy contract. No no no. What I’m suggesting is we start putting pressure on the company to give us the deal we deserve NOW.

Oscar wanted a deal only if it came with scope relief. Once they found out that our position is firm this simply turned into the standard negotiations story that we always go through. We’re only a few months past the amendable date. The union has put out some progress reports. The guys on the line aren’t weak sheep, they’ve just watched this movie a few times before and can quote it line for line. Basically yes, we sit around and sing campfire songs, fly the contract, and let the negotiating committee do their job. The guys out there beating their chest wanting an end to single engine taxi, no picking up trips, or the slow down, we’ll show them attitude aren’t doing us any good. From an operational standpoint a couple of guys on a personal mission doesn’t even make a dent in the operation, and a large scale program would be illegal. This has always taken time to accomplish, it will this time, and however many more times we get to watch this song and dance before we retire and walk away.

End it? Who's out there doing it in the first place???

It’s a little early to go on the offensive being that we’re only a few months past the amendable date. I’m all for a quick negotiation resulting in a superior contract, but I don’t know how having Insler go all at this point would be received by the public. There is public respect for what we do, but when the company points out what we earn, the 5 weeks of vacation, medical benefits, 16% B fund, free travel......... it is hard for a working family to feel much sympathy. If we want to be treated and paid like white collar professionals, then we should act the part. Negotiating in public won’t accomplish that. I’d love to have a contract to read right now but I don’t. Until then I’ll enjoy a pretty good contract and time at home with my family until the negotiating committee gives me something new to read.

Maaaaarrrrrrrrrvvvviiiin.

That would be funny if you weren’t serious. Who exactly would read those social media posts and pressure the United board to put Kirby on the hot seat?

What sacrifices would you like to tell the average customer we endured, compared to what they endured in the last decade?

Man you have no clue what actually goes on in this process. That’s understandable, but your post sounds like whining.

I don't think you have to worry about Delta getting a new contract anytime soon. CEO has already stated there would be no contract in 2019, and we are really just getting the process rolling.

The public doesn’t matter.

There are two parties that matter. The United pilots and management.

I single engine taxi every time I’m able too, our job is to operate safely and effectively, contract negotiations take time. We’ll get a contract in due time. You have to remember our union is taking a hard line on a big item that the company feels like it can profit on, it will take some time to reach a compromise and agreement until then just plug along be efficient and safe and let your paid union negotiators do there jobs.

DALPA opened with a goal to improve scope for their pilots. UALPA just says no change to current scope. There has been plenty of comprise on that big ticket item. No more.

All deals are reached with give and take on both sides in one form or another. I trust our union has our best interest in mind but it takes time to get there. Just part of the process.

Let's get that sky-writing airplane up and running and write FUPM every day above Willis Tower in that beautiful Chicago skyline. Time for some FUPM wrist bands and bag tags and some hats. Hats would be cool.

It's too early to go on the offensive. I trust Insler for the most part. His results in the grievance process have probably been the best in the history of the industry. I am not exaggerating when I say that. Kudos to him and his staff.

However, Oscar remains disconnected intentionally. 30% of the value of the stock is in labor stability. If we want things to start happening we have to affect what we can affect. So, I agree with you on turning up the heat.

My biggest concern is how the company wastes money. If we want profit sharing we won't get it because of how the company wastes the very cash we save them by operating efficiently, PBS, tight staffing, single engine taxi, etc. That's money from the pilots!

I think it's bad advice (and I hear it allot) call your rep if you want to know what's going on. I disagree. Don't bother your rep. They got enough to do. Plus, you can call 5 different reps and get 5 different opinions and spins on the same subject. Better is to have a weekly negotiating newsletter from the NC and signed by Insler as a defacto member.

FUPM!

That whole FUPM wristband deal sure was embarrassing. It’s hard for management or anyone else to take a group who want to be treated and paid as highly skilled professionals seriously when grown men and women actually parade around with a FU bracelet. We’re our own worst enemy sometimes.

That's because Delta has consistently given up top end scope over the past couple negotiation cycles. They have better low end scope, but that's mainly because Delta Management has decided to park 50 seaters more than our management. But Delta's JV language is also one of the reasons why they're more profitable than we are. If the make inroads on JV scope, their profit sharing will likely take a dip.

I really hope you guys hold the line on scope. DALPA repeated their mistake from the 90s in caving on international scope with the JV language. Now instead of a sky full of RJs replacing their domestic flying there will be a sky full of SkyTeam carriers replacing their international flying. Delta metal is only going to service international gateways like CDG, AMS, LHR, NRT, ICN. Then the SkyTeam partners take over. They have screwed themselves for another generation while their management rakes it in they will be 5 legging it in an Airbus. They can try to negotiate it back all they want unless they are prepared for massive concessions they won't get it. Once that horse has left the barn he ain't coming back in.

But the profit sharing is so amazing!!!! :rolleyes:

Really?

You wouldn't be the same toolbag who threw the female F/O off his flight for wearing one would you? In case you missed the last 30 years at CAL, we we're treated like absolute garbage and our company was finally making decent profits. Raises, work rule changes and retirement improvements were met with managements blank stares.

FUPM bracelets were the net result of all of the above and I sported one from beginning to end. Grown men and women did exist at the time and if you were former CAL, shame on you for not donning one. If you're not, then perhaps you should be better informed before spouting off on here?

Ah yes, Marvin Mainliner. I was sadly mistaken that they'd all left the property.