The university partnership and the time building route both require degrees regardless. Only those who are currently flying for the UAX exclusive carriers have the bachelors degree preferred not required, pending “significant leadership experience.” Those that get the Aviate CJO, who don’t have that degree, and don’t meet that leadership requirement, will have to check that box like the CPP before mixing on. Unless anyone has heard anything differently, or was told differently during the interview. United seems to be fixing problems that were discovered during the first wave, and trying to make the program better.

Just had a Mesa guy with us to Denver. He interviews with United tomorrow without a degree. Dont know any of his stats.

I just met a Mesa captain who interviewed with only a 2 year degree plus other credits. He was given a CJO providing that he earned his 4 year degree within one year. He is going to finish 3 months early. He was frustrated that he waited so long to finish school. His attitude was that everyone knows that the legacies are big on a degree and that there was no valid excuse why he blew it off for so long. He said that it made him appear lazy for willfully not meeting the desired requirements and he’s grateful that they gave him a chance.

I can't believe that we are still talking about this 20 years later ....it is SOOOOO EASY to get a degree via an online campus that it is a STUPID bet to try to get hired without one!

Instead of whining about it on the Forum...why not sign up for that online college class?

Thats what I say, but you would be shocked to hear how many at wholly owned AA regionals have no degrees. AA attracts such.

I agree. The pilots that I’ve flown with here that are involved in the recruiting and hiring process all say that the degree is a big deal if you want to work for United. Both the pilots and people in HR look at the lack of a degree as willful noncompliance. If an applicant won’t do what is expected to get the job, how can we expect them to do what is expected once they are employed?

Just ask old Mako you don’t need no “colleg” or comas either.....

"Not sure what your flying but Captain on the 737....."

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/u...ml#post2917963

Pretty easy game to play. Nice tie.

Can you elaborate more on the "significant leadership experience?"
What does that mean exactly to a 20 something year old?

I feel like chiming in here.

I agree that there are lots of GREAT pilots without degrees. I also think that bearing down and getting a degree, ANY four degree, isn't a lot to ask for a job that will pay you as well as if you are a J.S.D. or and M.D. over a 20-30 year career.

Just get it done.

Exactly. Nobody here is saying that having a 4 year degree makes you a better pilot. As stated above, there are plenty of avenues in which to display your flying skills absent the degree. Corporate, LCC and American via one of the Eagle carriers are all viable options. United will always make a few exceptions here and there but don’t plan on getting that call without a four year degree, period.

Maybe.

I graduated with a 4 year degree in 1998. My first 15 years as a professional pilot, I averaged just over $30,000/year. That included roughly 9 months as a CFI, 9 years as a regional pilot, 1 year as a major pilot, and 4 years 3 months on furlough from said major starting and running my own FBO.

The last 6+ years have been much better.

Just keep in mind the last few years probably don’t represent what a full career will be like.

Regardless, I agree you need the degree if you want the good flying jobs.

You entered the aviation market right before the lost decade started. It was a rough ride for everyone, but for someone like yourself, it was worse than those who rode it out at a legacy. You’re right about the degree though. If someone doesn’t want to get a degree, they can start over at an AA regional carrier with flow, go to one of the ACMI outfits, a LCC, or corporate. An easier option would be to just get the degree rather than complaining about being stuck in the regionals while “less qualified” people get hired at well paying jobs. The rules have been in place for years. They decided not to play by those rules and shouldn’t complain about not getting an interview.

I'm thinking Warrant Officer with so many ribbons and medals on his chest he has a hard time standing up straight. I sincerely hope we arent hiring anyone without a degree that isn't a one in a million type.

Even then, most of the guys I know who spent time as enlisted guys in the military did online college on ships or airbases etc. Its cheap and easy to get a crappy degree online these days, especially if you have significant aviation experience.

This is a PERFECT example of somebody having a standard set in their head, yet freely admitting that it’s meaningless.

I don’t disagree with your second point, but the first one is lost on me. If a person is intelligent, savvy, and has the correct personality for this job......why should we CARE what their formal education consists of? Especially since you said it yourself......it’s easy to “check the box” these days.

Seems most people are big fans of the “I did it, you should have to do it” mentality. I don’t really care, as long as the other standards I mentioned are held.

Disclaimer - the rules of the game are pretty clear. If you’re trying to get hired here, get yourself a degree. I hustled and made sure to finish before my interview. The HR representative, who happened to run the program at the time, complimented me on that effort. It may not be important to YOU, but it’s important to THEM. Until the rules change, get it done.

I’m sure there that the “I did it, so you should too” mentality
plays a pretty big part, however the biggest thing that you said is how important it is to THEM. The people in HR aren’t pilots and in their world, a degree on the wall is just as important as a laundry list of type ratings is to us. The pilots involved in recruiting and hiring think that its important too though. They feel that having a formal education contributes to, and provides insight to the “whole person”. I flew with one recently who went as far as to call a lack of a degree willful noncompliance. An applicant who deliberately avoids meeting the long established requirements, regardless if we feel that they are meaningless, is not the type of person that they want to invest in.

Nice job finishing your degree, and welcome to the company. Had you not, you’d probably still be at a regional. I wish more people would follow your example.

I flew with many great FOs who, on nice overnights, spent their spare time working on an online degree. I’d be out drinking, they would be working. I have great admiration for their discipline and determination.
Yeah, given a choice between one of these FOs and someone who didn’t show the discipline and determination I’ll take the former. Sorry.

Inspiring story......but as stated before, the online degree is exceedingly easy to attain. Most of those guys, myself included, should have finished it when they were supposed to. I also know PLENTY of lazy people who have their degree, and contribute almost nothing to the world around them. I graduated within a few hundredths of a perfect GPA. Business degree. I cherish the darn thing because I KNOW it helped get my foot in the door. Aside from that, I’m the same person I was before I finished, and the degree means nearly nothing to me outside of helping to get this job. I’m not “proud” of doing so well....because it wasn’t that hard to do it. If anything, I’m still a little ashamed that it took me this long. But the accomplishment did NOT change my worth as an employee. I’m the same dude as I would have been before I got the degree. An individual’s credentials don’t impress me, their character and critical thinking skills do.

Having said all that.....finish the degree. I invested thousands of dollars and many days of my time, and in exchange I got the chance to land the best job in the world....as far as I’m concerned.

Pretty worthwhile investment.

Just to draw a comparison, Blackhawk.....some would say that a person who languished at the regionals for about 20 years wasn’t trying hard enough...didn’t show the proper determination, etc.
I know for a fact you would strongly disagree with that statement, claiming circumstance prevented it, that there was a bigger picture to consider......

See where I’m going with that one?

Yes. I do see where you are going. There is a difference between those who spent 20 years at a regional ****ing and moaning about how their life is unfair, and those who spent 20 years at a regional but tried to make the best of it and improved their lot. The degree itself may not mean much, but there is a difference between the person who put in the time and effort to get that degree and the person who chose not to do so. It’s not the credentials that impress me, it’s the effort put in by some to get those credentials. As I wrote, many of those FOs I flew with sacrificed time to get those degrees. Personally, I’m more impressed by their online degrees earned while raising gear, slogging through crap and caring for kids than I am with my high brand degree from a prestigious university earned when I was a self centered punk.
If you can’t see that I can’t open your eyes.

Everyone’s story is different, and others’ perception of that story is meaningless.....is what my point was. We both got the job, and both of us are WAY too new to think our opinion of who else should get the job really matters, anyways. But hey....since you have that prestigious degree, you also should have realized that what I was saying is that 20 years spent at a regional is a lot like somebody being 35 years old and haven’t finished their degree. You might think they don’t have discipline, or desire, or commitment. They might just have a LOT that kept it from happening. Sorta like the 24-year old who got hired at a Legacy after 6 months at a regional can be compared to the 22-year old college graduate. Sometimes timing and good fortune are the only things separating people.

Since I know how reluctant you are to view things from another perspective, I will respectfully agree to disagree. I’m just happy to be here, and waaaay too much time on my hands at the crash pad this week.

A degree isn't "meaningless." It's the price of admission. We've got a few folks without degrees. I don't agree with that. It's the price of admission.

I especially love to hear the impressive stories from one of our QC Check-Airman that has a chip on his shoulder because he doesn't have a degree.

go out and get it done. It shows you care about the profession and being a professional.

There are degrees and then there are degrees. Some may want to get a higher quality degree so they can do other things in addition to flying. There are "degrees" and then there are "degrees." Whichever road you choose based on your academic prowess go ahead and get r done.

A degree is only meaninless if you attach no meaning to it. It has meaning if you assign it meaning. It's subjective in your mind. But, it's an objective qualification and it's an easy discriminator.

Most that don't have a degree fall into three categories.

1. too lazy to do it
2. lack the dedication and discipline
3. No time, other priorities

Funds are not an excuse. The GI bill is there and so are student loans.

I think there’s a big difference between getting an “education’ and getting a “degree”. I’d rather see us focus on candidates with a good education rather than get wrapped up on the word “degree”.

You’re right. My business degree wasn’t nearly as demanding as one in engineering or science. Requiring the degree isn’t about ensuring that an applicant is highly educated, it is about showing that they can apply themselves over a long period of time and complete an expected task. Those involved in the hiring process look at someone without a degree as someone who doesn’t play by the rules, and therefore, a bad fit for United.

Ouch....being at one of those wholly owned I can’t even take offense to that and agree entirely that it’s disappointing to not require a degree even if it’s just a 2 year.

With that being said, I hope I’m not highjacking (sorry for the poor term) this thread by asking a few other questions.....I originally signed on to the wholly-owned for the I originally signed on to the wholly-owned for the true flow as I’ll be 55 next year and I felt it was important to get 10 years in somewhere. after flying non-rev a few times and seeing how almost useless it is at times, I don’t think that it’s worth it to stay there just for that reason. The flow is probably anywhere from 4 to 6 years depending on attrition. I could stay there, upgrade this year, and get in as a check instructor to pave the resume. Where I could jump ship in the spring and go to frontier, make more money and have more than 12 days off than 12 days off per month. I guess my question is would that be a bad move? Is frontier a kiss of death to get into a legacy? Right now I only have 3000 hrs TT, 600 turbine, Right now I only have 3000 hours, 600 turbine pt 121, G200 and E145 type, cfi/II and the 4 year degree with a 3.0 gpa. My plan at this point is to do whatever I can to get out and meet people at as many job fairs as I can, keep saying involved; Just can’t really afford to make any mistakes along the way as far as the wrong moves. Only have 10 years left unless of course the age moves to 67. Any of just can’t really afford to make any mistakes along the way as far as the wrong moves. Only have 10 years left unless of course the age moves to 67. Any and all insight is appreciated

Are you saying that the pilots that have been hired without a degree are a bad fit for United?

And do you still beat your wife?

I didn’t say that. I was repeating what pilots who are currently involved in the hiring process have told me. Like others have mentioned, considering the ease and affordability of online education, they view those without a degree as lazy, lacking discipline, or not wanting to do what is expected of them. The odds of an applicant successfully completing the interview process and gaining employment at United without a degree seem to be remote at best. If United is where you want to work, get a degree. If it isn’t then don’t worry about it.

I didn’t say you said that... That’s why I asked the question.... to clarify what you were saying.

All that being said, to have interviewers use the “degree” as the sole indicator as to whether someone can “play by the rules” or “complete a life goal”... they are being lazy themselves in not looking for other ways to determine those human traits. They are potentially passing up excellent pilots/people who might far exceed the qualities of their counterparts with the “degree”.

We used to require people to be no more than 30 years old to be hired. We used to require 20/20 uncorrected vision to be hired. Those criteria were modified because they were determined to be weeding out potentially excellent candidates.

I know what the rules are today... just stating an opinion as to why I think they should be altered.

Actually those were changed because of lawsuits against UAL and then someone “saw the light.”

The whole degree thing is simply a function of filter applicants. At a time when they need to hire 300 and there are 10,000 “qualified” applicants on file an objective and easy to defend system is required. Filtering out people by higher education is simple and defendable in court.

Don’t forget the UAL filtering system is some sort of weighted computerized point measure, that does include both formal education and life experience. UAL does weight experience highly, as is often seen in numbers of relatively low time military pilots hired who have taught, and led others during their service.

As the need for pilots continues non-degree pilots will get hired and they will be the ones who became check pilots, base chiefs, and basically excelled amongst their peers.

Of course they could also be someone who dogged out 20k in hours flying worn out cargo airplanes in the worst conditions possible. The school of hard knocks.

If you’re young, get a degree. :)

Even if you’re not young, get a degree if United is your goal. We are a long way from not having good applicants with a degree. Waiting until we relax the requirement will mean thousands of seniority numbers and dollars that are given up.

I don’t know about it being the sole determining factor, but it is a major factor. They consider the lack of a degree a big negative mark, and there are still plenty of people available with what they are looking for. They may be passing up “potentially excellent candidates”, I’m sure that they are, but the ones that they decide to go with are also very good. Being that they consider a degree to be a big deal, and that we are not going to see a lack of good applicants with a degree for a while, the choice is up to the applicant. Get the degree or try to get hired somewhere else.

Again, I understand how the current system works. I’m just saying I think it’s asinine and arbitrary and should be changed. I’m sure it won’t, but that’s not the point.

Either way, the system was changed for the better.

Life should bend to aileronjam’s view of the world ? Lmao

A box that needs to be checked if you want to be here. Nothing more nothing less.

Considering all the people you are arguing with must have at least a 4 year degree, it is a bit disappointing to see such a lack of reasoning skills on their part. I totally agree with you.

They day you took your first flying lesson, and the day you decided you wanted to be a major airline pilot.... was a college degree one of those requirements?

Yeah that’s what I thought.

Exactly. I knew in grade school what was required and what paths would get me where I wanted to be. Tough decisions would have to be made. Had to say “no” to situations that looked fun at the time but would have put the career in jeopardy. Plenty of people took out student loans etc to go to college after high school or did ROTC etc in college and came up through the military ranks. As has been pointed out in this thread already; there are flying jobs, even at some airlines; where the four year college degree barrier is nonexistent. If United or Delta are your goals, meet the qualifications instead of insist they make an exception for you.

Who is insisting that United or Delta make exceptions?

So was uncorrected 20/20 vision.... what’s your point?

One is a biological limitation that’s correctable, the other is a choice.