Competitive Hiring Mins
 

I must admit I am a bit out of touch but I am curious about what is typically competitive to get hired at United?

Thanks in advance!

There is not a single answer, other than a 4-yr college degree.

UAL has hired pilots with a very wide range of flight hours and qualifications, with the caveat that those on the lower end of hours tend to have outstanding qualifications in other areas.

Not having been involved in denying a United pilot a jumpseat is a good start. Remember that if you end up at the Regionals.

Being in a position where you can deny a jumpseat is a better start.

Making weird threats unrelated to an OPs question is also a recommended strategy.

So competitive minimums besides a 4 years degree aside from jumpseat issues? I don’t work at a regional, but one of those lower cost carriers.

Thanks!

PIC time was what I alluded to. The more, the better. And maybe your lower cost carrier gets scooped up by a bigger airline. Finish a degree if you dont have one.

Curious minds would definitely like to know what is competitive. I have over 2,500 PIC 121 turbine with a roughly equal amount in large turboprops and jets.

I can't speak with any level of authority since I'm not in hiring but I can anecdotally say that a common theme from the non-military and non-CPP new hires is that most others had very strong backgrounds beyond flying. It wasn't about the hours and more about the course they have charted for themselves within their current work. Most that have come from LCCs or other major airlines also were either prior mil pilots or were regional LCAs. There were a few that had lower times but they had also done internships with United.

Bottom line - the more boxes you can check on the application the better. LCA, Chief Pilot, Director of Ops, Director of Safety etc. Basically - if you have taken the mindset that you are currently working for the company that you will be with for life and have "bought in" to making that the best organization it can be and taking definitive strides towards that effort...that's probably the min to get hired...unless you are a USAF C17 guy. I swear you can't swing a dead cat at the training center without hitting one of those.

I have heard through the grapevine that roughly between 5500-6500 hours (civilian) is the average flight time. Four year degree and having done other things outside of being a straight line pilot (i.e. Check Airman, Instructor, Union Work, etc.).

I’d sure love to add one more to that demographic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is really hard to nail down the competitive hiring minimums. I am nothing special, yet I received an interview invite. Keep your hopes up and get your application reviewed professionally. I believe that's what made the difference for me. All my time is turbine time.

3200TT
1030 FW ME PIC
Army Fixed Wing and Regional Part 121 Captain

I went to an online university and earned a sub 3.0 GPA. I did get a CP recommendation but it wasn't one of his "silver bullets". I also went to OBAP a few months ago.

No accidents/training failures/DUI/etc.

Keep trying, never know when that email will come!

I don’t believe there is anybody who actually knows what competitive hiring minimums are. A few months ago, we had a pilot in the jumpseat who claimed to have inside knowledge of the hiring algorithm because he was part of the team that developed it. I wrote on two pieces of scratch paper vastly different qualifications that represent actual resumes from two different applicants. One of them has no experience outside of being a line pilot at a regional, and the other was an Ivy League graduate, EASA ATPL, sim instructor, TCE, APD, production test pilot, SME, developed and certified part 142 training programs and simulators, and has worldwide operating experience as well as previous part 121 experience. We hired the line pilot.

I’m very close to four other applicants who collectively are LCAs, OEOs, chief pilots, and have plenty of PIC and total time. I know none of them have skeletons in the closet. Crickets. The only thing I know will get an applicant hired is persistence. That said, United is a wonderful place to work. It would just be nice if those of us who’ve recently come up through the ranks and met some remarkable individuals along the way would have a little input. I get the argument that everyone has 10 buddies they’d recommend, but some of these people I mentioned have dozens of recommendations which don’t seem to hold any value.

We have a 23 year old flying out of EWR. Turned 23 in JAN and was hired in Feb. Spends 19 years under 1000 and 6 years @ #1. You will never figure out how they hire.

There’s about a 99.9% chance that person was an intern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Man that kid hit the jackpot ! Happy for him :)

United has always done this type of hiring. It is not the norm but always some just like this hired. I sure agree that you will never figure out how they hire.

One of my close friends finally got an interview for United. His qualifications are 12,000+ flight time, check airman, former chief check airman, and an APD. He only has turbo-prop time though.

Are they hiring pilots or personalities?

Both.

Based on my prior experience as a PI, I'd be surprised if that 23 year old intern was the "problem child" of that class during training or IOE.

Really? So for this to be true there are currently no pilots senior to him under the age of 29.. find that hard to believe.

And we hired a 23 year old. No way does that kid have anything remotely what this guy has.

You gotta be kididng me.........a 23 year old... You sure he wasn't hired at Mesa or something? Who was his mommy/daddy? So much for paying your dues.

That's nice and all, but lets make sure those interns get an opportunity to pay their dues and earn their way in.

2500 to 5000 hours is real good.
i think check airman and evaluator set you apart.

Shhhhhh, he's got a family bible ready to go. That 6 year figure will have an asterisk bedside it.

When I got hired by United, (umpty-mumble years ago) there was a 22 year old pilot in the class. He was well qualified, and had an FAA letter that he could exchange for the ATP certificate on his 23rd birthday.

Joe

What is well qualified Joe?

That is pretty spot on. Check Airman is a big one. Been that way at UAL since the 90's ......yup I am getting old!

EWR FO born 1996 :D

Hey I don't blame them. They applied got called and were hired. I do not believe this person was an intern. It is what it is.

At the end of the day.. there is just no reason to hire someone under 25.. who has not slugged it out in the left seat of an RJ, or in some sort of business jet.. where THEY were the ones in charge and had to make the big decisions.

It might be great that handfuls of pilots are getting in without ever upgrading at the Express Carrier, but it's not fair or right for all those out there who are doing it the way it was suppose to be done.
Not to mention, I do believe that we're setting ourselves up for failure in the future.

Sure, the training department is top notch.. they WILL go to the max (LOL) to help our new pilots out.
But at the end of the day.. even the best pilots have bad days.
What will happen some day when we find ourselves putting 2-3 yr pilots in the left seat with brand new hires in the right.. and stuff starts to come undone.

Absolutely nothing wrong with working for an express carrier for 3-5 years and then making the leap over to the Majors.

Seems like we're starting to see NewHires being able to hold WB (triple and Sparky). So we're gonna put new pilots on a plane were they will barely fly.. may have to go back to the sim for landings.. and some of these same pilots could be the ones hired in the early twentys with low time/low experience.
Just don't see it working out well in the long run.

My .02 cents

FS, FP & FtC
Motch

I agree. It’s insulting to those who have dug in the trenches.

This happens at the regionals on the regular, Im a 24 year old captain often flying with brand new hires straight out of a 172. Which usually entails a little bit of flight instructing on my part but they all do well.

(Disclaimer; I am not young and it took me a long time to get to a major)

In what manual does it say “The way it’s supposed to be for a pilot to make it to a Major is...”?

The mindset of “I had to do it , so everyone should have to” is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Why is it ok for a young pilot to be in the left seat of a regional but somehow not ok for them to be in the right seat of a major?

Given that airline training should Be to FAA standards no matter if it’s a regional or major that should be a wash.

Which do you think is more beneficial for a young pilot’s development, flying with a regional captain who has all of maybe a couple hundred hours more flight time than the new FO or flying with a seasoned mainline pilot?

Absolutely no reason whatsoever A pilot under 25 can’t be successful given the right training other than bitterness from those who were not as fortunate.

The MAXs crash Captains were 31 and 29.

Your point?

1. They they were trained poorly (nothing to do with age)

2. Why are people ok with 2 young, relatively inexperienced pilots at the controls of a RJ but not ok with with young FO flying with a seasoned mainline pilot ?

Because it should be about experience AND qualifications? Not sure how much experience a 23 year old has, but I’m assuming it’s not as much as the many well qualified RJ CAs out there just waiting for a call with 5+ years experience.

If this job is about experience and qualifications, would you then agree that we should have a competitive selection process for upgrades at mainline? If you want to upgrade to a higher paying seat you submit an application to a board and/or go through an interview process that determines if you have obtained enough experience and qualifications for the next level. What about the FAA minimums for an ATP and then and additional 1000hrs prior to PIC of 121 operation? Are they not high enough?

I think we can all agree that this job really isn't 100% about experience and qualifications. As long as the airline still has the luxury of hiring good personalities that meet the requirements and are trainable and take the job seriously - I'm fine with their approach. It is highly unlikely that we will be forced to hire pilots at the bare ATP minimums and then upgrade them the moment they hit 1000hrs in the right seat. That is exactly what is happening at our regional partners. There is usually only 1 or 2 outliers in each class with respect to age/experience and that means a couple dozen or so per year out of hundreds of extraordinarily well qualified new hires. For whatever reason they were hired...I'm ok with the overall trend of who is making it to Basic Indoc.

I suppose what's frustrating to many is how opaque the hiring process can be. I've flown with so many great pilots who would be perfect fits at any airline: many thousands of hours of total time, lots of life experience, great to be around on a 4-day, unblemished records, years of 121 experience...and they can't get a call.

Then you have the stories about guys getting hired at the majors at age 23 (this just happened at DAL.) And you wonder -- just how is this possible? How can a 23-year-old be remotely ready for the right seat of a Mad Dog? And why would that person get called ahead of, say, the 30 or 40 Y/O RJ captain with 10K TT and every other box checked?

On the other hand, I've flown with a 26 y/o who just got hired at DAL. I can see exactly why. He's sharp, detailed, a good stick, very personable, and will undoubtedly do very well. And at the same time I remember when SWA hired a guy who was a legend in base for being the most cantankerous, unfriendly guy any of us knew, in addition to scaring more than a few of us in the air. Quite how this individual got past their hiring filters was a puzzlement to all of us...

Guess it's in the same 'manual' that say's a man should hold the door open for a lady, that I should give out Halloween candy next week, that we should try and help out those who have it worse than us.

Of course there's no manual that says how you become a Major Airline Pilot.
But there are some long established guidelines.
How about we say a High School diploma is good enough. Wait-
reverse that.
How about a GED is good enough.

How about we get the MCPL (Multi Crew Pilot License) and hire 250hr pilots with a wet comm. multi. and make them IRO's?
Nothing wrong with that, huh..

For the record, I'm also 'old' and came up the hard way (ex enlisted!). But that doesn't mean everyone behind me has to do it the same way.. but hours and experience matters. If you disagree, ok.


Well, lets see. If ya think ALL airlines are 'standard' that there is funny.
When I flew a E145 at Trans States, we had certain weights for checked bags.. and there would be a Chautauqua E145 sitting next to us with the exact OPPOSITE weight for the same bags! LOL
Sure, the FAA can set "Minimum" standards for the industry, but each airline can raise those minimums to meet their needs/goals.

And I NEVER said the guy/gal in the left seat of an RJ shouldn't be in the right seat of a mainliner.. just the opposite! The RJ Captain SHOULD transition over to the right seat of a mainline aircraft.. and then move over into the right seat at the 12yr mark! (LOL.. just kidding.. 3-5 yr is a good time to move)

Wait, what?!
So you think the new hire FO should NOT spend more time with the Regional Captain and build hours and experience but jump ahead of him and get hired into the Mainline right seat INSTEAD of the Regional Captain getting hired into the Mainline right seat and the newhire FO finally moving into the Left seat?!
hmm.. interesting.

Of course there isn't.
But again, why WOULD you hire the 25yr old regional FO vs the 28yr old Regional Captain (or maybe even 25yr Captain)?
There must be data out there now (hearing some of the horror stories on line) that certain subset new hire groups are having harder times with training then others.

I have heard that the single seat fighter guys/gals have a bit of a hard time in training.. due to some of the CRM/crew ways of doing things. But then again, single seat fighters have to be some of the hardest, stressful type of training and flying going.. so spending a few extra sims/hours on someone in their 30's or 40's is not that big of a deal to me. THEY have earned that right.

But (if it's true) that it took someone 70+hrs of IOE to get on line.. and they weren't an RJ Captain but someone who was hired through a program that goes against known guidelines.. then I (and everyone else) should question the program.
Yes, once hired we should/need to help them get through. But we should also re-evaluate the hiring process so maybe it doesn't happen again, or become the norm.

I don't begrudge anyone who I fly with.. on the basis of how they got into the cockpit (except for Scabs..)
I want a fun trip.. SAFE and no FSAP/IRO reports (ok, maybe a 'Bravo'.. hahaha) and then enjoy a good meal with a Bier and talk contract stuff!

We all have different ways of finally making into the cockpit of a mainline aircraft. I'm just saying that at this time in the industry, when there are still thousands of qualified RJ Captains and pilots with lots of Turbine PIC time, not sure why we hire people without that.

Just my opinion and .02 cents!

Fly Safe, Fly Professionally and Fly the Contract!
Always
Motch

Talk contract stuff over dinner? Yikes. Don’t you have other interests?