You are right, and they were steps in the right direction. I’m not saying that we need to give in, I’m saying that so much has been taken, or given up, that one contract isn’t going to get everything that people think that we should. The impact of 9/11 was huge. It changed the industry. Airlines declared bankruptcy and gutted labor contracts. Don’t expect one contract to fix everything.

Sorry I disagree with you.

That’s fine. I’d like to see things differently, but ranting on APC has nothing to do with what happens out on the line. The vast majority of line pilots will be operating their flights exactly like they do now. An organized slow down is illegal, and the pilot group isn’t angry enough to change their ways. Being that we aren’t going to give up what the company wants, they aren’t going to pay more for the status quo. A small percentage of people wanting to slow down, many of those aren’t even in command of the flight, won’t accomplish a thing. I’d like to be wrong, but I don’t see that the pilot group is there yet.

We have gotten back many things over the last two cycles, my point was that saying pay rates are okay and we should mainly focus on work rules is absolutely self-defeating. They are having trouble raking up the leaves from the money tree and now is the time to shake it as hard as we can.

I’d agree, but some people think that we will rake them all up. Some of those leaves have simply blown away. I think that those at the table are looking out for our best interest. This is going to drag out because our representatives are not in a giving mood.

I don’t think I have been ranting. By the time this group is ready the ship could well have sailed. JMO

I wasn’t point fingers at you or any individual. Just in general.

I too want everything that we can get!!! I’m not saying that we should accept a concessionary deal, but there are certain realities that we must acknowledge. This is a negotiation and like it or not, the Company has most of the chess pieces. They have control over the money, flying, the RLA, and the NMB is Company friendly. That’s a significant uphill battle! They (the Company) don’t have to agree to anything that they do not want to. We (Labor) also have that ability.

If you are willing to only accept a deal that fully compensates for all that you have lost because of 9/11, you will be waiting for a VERY long time. What you seem to be asking for is unachievable because of the RLA. In addition, the best tool that we have to affect change (a strike) will never be allowed. The President will get in the way of that. No POTUS will allow an air carrier the size of United, Delta, or American to strike because of the negative impact on not only the domestic economy, but also the global economy.

We should ask for everything, but be realistic in our minds about what is acceptable.

If you think a strike is the only way to move the needle, you are mistaken.

The other methods require us to be released for self help, and that will not happen. If we do it outside of self help, it is illegal. The recent legal precedents are not in our favor either. For example when Spirit sued the pilots because they were not picking up open time like they had historically done. This was done during a stalemate of negotiations.