Debating Jumping Ship
 

Hello everyone,

So was wondering if I can get some info and advice about returning back to the United States.. Was living in the United States previously back in the early 2000 job prospects as a airline pilot was extremely low and when I graduated and finished flying school I was practically broke....opted to go overseas and was blessed with a good start flew the B737-CL as a start and then jumped to a Major international airline in the M.E flying the B777/787. I have more than 5000 jet time and I also have my FAA unrestricted ATPL with the B777 rating.... Hardly have any PIC time... how is it back there and what are my prospects and recommendations??

Biggest right off the bat question, do you have a bachelors degree?

Was it graduated from college what you’re referring to?

I think you might have been Apple corrected to oblivion?

It was graduated from college that he not said but don't know.

As someone who has made the jump I would think long and hard about exactly why you want to leave before making the move. Stateside you will have a union, more days off, a ridiculously easy training environment and a life outside of aviation. You are going to take a big hit on the amount of money that hits your bank account each month and I’m guessing you will be bored out of your mind (could be a welcome thing) for the first few years.

It’s going to be a challenge in many ways going from the left seat of a 777 to reserve in the right seat of a 737/320. Just from a monetary standpoint you are probably minus at least 9k per month after taxes for the next 7 years minimum. It’s a huge financial hit on the front end of your career. Then the monotony of domestic ops, hotels, FAs, commuting, etc.

Over the long term you will probably break even or be ahead. You will have a lot more time off and control of your life. You get to have a life outside of aviation again. But you will definitely miss a lot of things about your current job. Get used to the idea of economy or jumpseat for the rest of your career. Enjoy every moment of your current job and lifestyle while you can. My $.02.

Aside from the long term issues, you might have an advantage to get hired. Going your route shows without a doubt that you sincerely love to fly, want to fly, as first priority. Hiring folks like that. It’s also a very different story to tell other than the usual regional or military route. They might interview you just to break up the monotony.

Said he has no pic so he’s not in left seat

Graduate shoolz I did, make more monies diploma gets you.

It clearly wasn’t an English degree.

Apply by all means..... if you really want to live in the states, at first anyway.

Don’t get hung up on reasons you might fail or give any credence to the naysayers. Just go for it.

Btw, one of the best First Officers I’ve flown with the last few years, does not have a degree. He has a mechanic license and was an Air Force flight engineer.

prevents a sense of humor...

Carry on, as you were.

Yes I do have a bachelors degree

Did you notice the widget B737 icon... that should explain the humor part! Sometimes these guys take themselves too serious!

Stay warm,

OC

Thank you everyone for your input....It is not going to be easy to make a decision, I think I will have to line up all the pros and cons and make a decision...

Even if you are able to 'decide' now, the real V1 won't have to come until once you have a CJO in hand.

Very competitive so you know
Once you get the job is a no brainer situation


Best of luck

Emirates 777 captain was in the class behind me at Delta. With profit sharing he calculated he would break even second year.

I find that hard to believe considering that my second year (which was under our current contract extension) I broke even with my previous RJ LCA pay.

* Unless Emirates is paying WAAAY less than I was led to believe.

Always find these statements interesting.
So, just to be sure we understand you-
As as RJ LCA you made more combined compensation than at United on 2nd year pay.

That would include, 16% BFund.. a profit sharing check worth an additional 5ish%, and higher per diem?
Not to mention, what were your medical costs at your regional?
Lastly.. and THIS is the most important part of the equation-
How many flight hours did you have vs. how many credit hours?

Do most new hire pilots take a pay cut on year one here at United.. probably.
But you're not coming here for year 1 outlook.
For most... yr 2 is a wash or probably an increase in TOTAL compensation.

You're coming here cause there is no doubt that a 10/15/20/25+ yr career at any of the top 3 majors, the 2 major cargo carriers and a few of the "others" will net you a higher gross income, better Quality of Life and a better retirement.

If you decide to make the jump AND get a CJO here at United.. Welcome!
If not, all the best at your current employer.

Motch

You’re making this way more complicated than I had intended, so I’ll just throw out hard numbers: my last full year as an RJ LCA (which was my 12th), my last pay stub showed that I made $147k. When I came to United I took a pay cut my first year, made about the same as when I left during my second year, and it’s all been in the plus column since.

You’re absolutely correct that I had to work my butt off at the regional, doing IOE every leg, four legs a day, four days a week, for YEARS on end. Now as a wide body FO I consider myself semi-retired, but that was not the subject in question: it was that an Emirates 777 Captain would have a similar financial experience that I had making the move. I doubt that is the case because I’m sure those guys make WAAAY more than $147k, regardless of workload.

I have no regrets making the move, in case you gathered that from my post. There is no other airline I’d rather be working at now than United, and I only wish that I had gotten here sooner.

It's more, including the $3K/mo housing allowance, but not WAAY more, IMHO. I could easily see an expat Emirates 777 Captain making the call to return to the US expecting to break even sooner rather than later.

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...ional/emirates

That individual wasn’t very good with numbers or forgot about the IRS. Maybe he/she was just comparing basic salary. Including all allowances a captain at EK makes about 19k/month or 230k/year after tax. If they took the villa option you would have to reduce that by about 40k but would then have free housing. I’m guessing you would need to make 300k in the states to end up with 230k after taxes. I don’t work for delta but I would be imprsssed if you can make that on year 2 salary.

Cooking the numbers well I see!!!
Check the vat tax and cost of living at Dubai

EK 9 year captain 14k per month tax free however he pays Uncle Sam around 12 k every year on taxes as an Expat, with free housing is what my buddy just told me. He has 350k on his provident fund.

Your buddy takes the housing so he doesn’t get the allowance of appx 180,000 aed/year. So just like I said in my previous post he makes about 180k with a free villa (bonuses and other allowances). Or he could choose to make about 220- 230k and be responsible for his own housing. I’m not sure why I would “cook the books” to over report my income to the IRS. Your tax obligations to Uncle Sam back home are a function of how much you can deduct. Some can’t be bothered to look into it deeply.

And 92 hours month after month
Sorry I forgot

I haven’t spoken to an EK pilot in the last couple years.

But at least THEN, ask them how many hours a month they’re putting in the airplane a month, then divide out their pay.

Then look at an average WB pilot here and look at time in the plane vs. credit per month/year.

Like I said, maybe it’s changed. But as mentioned, the guys I ran into that were coming back we’re coming back for a reason. Lack of compensation wasn’t a frequently mentioned one.

Off topic but do United recognise a Bachelor's Degree from an overseas University that has a good reputation?

I would say yes and no. I have a buddy that had a equivalent bachelors from India . (I guess they do 3 year degrees there or did ) and both Delta and United would not accept that . Would be worth asking at a recruiting event .

3 year, overseas degrees don’t matter to UAL.

I have a BEng from a U.K. university in Mech Eng and it wasn’t even discussed at my interview. DAL on the other hand just about had a melt down, trying to get their collective head around a bachelors degree from a foreign university.

LOL
Says is all~

Motch

That’s interesting because in 2005 I tried to get a good friend in at CAL. He had an engineering degree from France. CAL wouldn’t recognize it as a four year degree because he completed it in 3 and told me “not to get his hopes up”. He is at Delta.

Vernon, it might have something to do with not just the country but the actual university. Mine’s from London University, so not a Mickey Mouse degree

Yep and I’m sure you can imagine where I’m very glad I ended up. ;)

Mine is from The University of New South Wales in Australia. Australia does 3 Year Degrees not 4 like the USA. Would love to avoid doing another degree just for the sake of it.