Contract 2019
 

How is that new on time on top contract working out for you ?
Another year has come and gone .

Troll Alert......

It’s the overall quality of the contract not the timeline. But of course you knew that. No concessions, especially Scope!

..... mulletman, muffler, larrylerner, and fortuner.....and now, Far999.

What did you do to help?

I'm not happy about it. But I'm also not going to be happy with any contract that loosens scope or doesn't improve QOL significantly.

I'm sure we could have a new contract tomorrow if we just flex on scope. No thanks.

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

Whatever the name, is he wrong?

I want a contract that doesn’t give scope, but the idea that pilots are willing to wait forever to do that is crap. The union can’t and won’t ever promote “work to rule” so each pilot needs to reflect on a contract that’s a year late and individually determine what that means.

Everyday that goes by is lost opportunity for growth in retirement savings and QOL through improved work rules. Everyday that goes by strengthens the companies excuse that they cant pay 100% retro, and even if they did remember that you missed record growth in the market with that money. Think of these things when Delta gets (at least) double our profit sharing next month.

Dont do anything stupid or illegal but if you’re not getting ****ed, you’re not paying attention.

^^^^^^^^^This is a true mantra

Very well said. Just trying to bring up a discussion about are lack of a contract.
It’s not all roses here folks, been down this road many many times.

This ^^^

Yes we will not give up scope, period. My concern is where's the outrage on a contract that is over one year expired, company's making more money than ever and we all show up to work fat, dumb and happy.

Union should be organizing picketing events and tell them to go to hell on the lame-ass Blitz days. Well past time to show our game faces and cook up some bad press for management.

I don't think that's the case, but it's not a subject that can be discussed in public. Airlines have been suing unions for status quo violations so anything that even hints of an organized work action puts us in jeopardy of being sued by the company.

ALPA can certainly organize pickets and other legal demonstrations, but, there is no way you’re going to hear the union suggest any change in the operational status quo.

Each pilot, individually, is going to have to make the decision about their engagement at work.

Their engagement? Come to work and do your job. Not sure what there is to decide.

Kinda surprised no one brought up the Delta negotiations update on retirement funding. Short take for those who didn't see it is that DALPA opened with a request for retirement contributions to go up to 25% from 16% and go into an after tax plan. The intent being to bring all pilots back up to the pension + 401k level of pre-bankruptcy retirement funding, but in a way that is secure unlike the pensions of yesterday.

Kinda like the American MEC opener last cycle that started with “All flying for American Airlines will be done by pilots on the American Airlines seniority list.” Where did that go?

Delta pilots can ask for anything they want. They will likely get 16% for retirement.

If it were 16%, and you are beyond clueless, 99% of our pilots would reject it in MEMRAT.

Delta made over a $6 Billion profit in 2019. They have bought back $15 Billion in stock.

We will attain the 25% and make major gains across our contract.

My hat is off to the United pilots for their firm stand on scope.

Concessions with this level of profitability are unconscionable.

You are either 1) not a pilot or 2) clueless as to the nuances related to labor relations.

If you’re not sure what else there is to decide, you’re just the type of drone, oops, I mean pilot, that management loves.

Yeah, my guesses of late have been way off, but I'm guessin' now not so much with status quo when the corporation is minting money. Just thought the details of how ALPA wanted to improve the value of our contracts were interesting. They apparently are focused on bringing value to our retirement. That's great for guys equal in age to out Chairman, but not so much for the younger generation since it will be decades away in value for them.

We all benefit from a retirement plan.

I don't see anybody on the seniority list complaining about the 16% contribution and some pilots won't be able to touch it for 30-40 years. Also, anybody who retires early because now they don't have to work until 65 lets every pilot move up a number. We get 300-400 early retirements in addition to the normal retirements, and that's a big "now" benefit for everyone. The way this was presented, as a 9% pre-tax contribution by the company that grows over time, actually benefits junior and younger pilots even more, because they have years of accumulation ahead of them, and will have far richer retirements than anyone who was here through the ESOP when we could not contribute to our 401k because the stock value of the ESOP shares were already too high.

Having the company contribute to EVERY pilot, and that pilot able to see how much is in that other retirement account that they own, is a huge win for all of us. If we had that 25 years ago when I was hired, many of us wouldn't be here right now.

Fact
2019
Early retirements 53 total
LTDs are still in the seniority list

Please. Delta will get nowhere near 25%.

Who is going to get the first, industry-leading, contract???

https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea....pilots-threat/

Time will tell.

I’m going to refrain from calling you a surrender monkey because that wouldn’t be nice.

Given Delta’s highest profits in its 95 year history, there is no excuse not to have a fair and reasonable retirement for its pilots. 25% isn’t equal to a DB of 60% of FAE but its a good step in the right direction.

Which bear is best?

FACT: black bear


Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica

Nothing to see here folks. He wants us to negotiate a cash-out payment for him to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars but whenever you ask him how much worse off he's going to be retirement, he calls you a surrender monkey and that we wouldn't have jobs if it weren't for him. Facts don't exist in his world. The only thing he cares about is his money grab as he walks out the door. Don't let him try to fool you with his unity BS

Screen name and this quote alone made my day.

Michael!!!!

Money grab is correct. New and people with many years to work don't be fooled. If you cash out folks with with lost pensions with a cash out/catch up lump sum based on a negotiated contractual retirement increase who's taking all the risk that we keep the keep the contractual gains over a career? Esop and pensions went away when the company needed the money as will any retirement contribution in the contract that the company pays if we have a downturn. If we get 25% it won't last in the next downturn i.e concessions but senior folks will have got their money and we'll be holding the empty money bag. Don't be a fool and think we'll never have a downturn.

Looking at the number of Delta pilots retiring in the next 10 years this looks like an easy thing that’s going to pass. I’m guessing more than 50% of the seniority list has 20+ years of seniority and many would like to have a retirement.

6500/14500 (considering no growth) in the next 10 years. That's 45%. Additionally, the way it is written, this will likely only impact those retiring in the first 7-8 years.

No one really knows what the bargaining looks like over at DELTA. I would love to know how things are going, but I can tell you this. "I am a jelly donut."...I am a Delta pilot.

I think we all need to root for Delta. The bar they raise, is the bar we will either crawl over, or crawl under.

Delta is behind us. We are the ones that are supposed to be raising the bar.

I didn't want to say it... But thank you.

I think they will get to a deal sooner than us. That's my perception anyways.

I don't think Kirby wants to wag the dog. I think he doesn't want to "lead" in pattern bargaining. he'd rather see what the price of a pilot is and react.

Do you feel as if Kirby wants to "lead" in terms of pattern bargaining amongst legacy carriers?

A friend at Delta says their negotiations humming right along.

yeah, we were supposed to lead, but maybe we were just born to follow....

I bet we could negotiate some amazing new and improved "delta plus."

We SHOULD set the bar height, but Delta has always done that for the past two decades. I think UA Pilots will follow them yet again.

- Octa

I really tip my cap to DAL MEC. They seem like they are very squared away and are able to drive results for their pilots.

It's probably easier and cheaper for us to just focus on Delta plus in just about everything they do. Heck, we could just negotiate an AA plus, and SWA plus, and a DAL plus, and an XYZ plus and call it a day. No sense spinning our wheels to go nowhere fast (or slow).

We didn't introduce any of the contentious sections until just before the amendable date. Retirement alone ( 9% DC increase and Cash plus up for soon to be retirees) may end up being a Billion dollar ask. With our current MEC, I don't anticipate any agreement for at least another year.

The company has thrown away $9B in stock buybacks. Do you know where they got that money? When they wiped out the pension liability, they recorded it as a loss, and they are still getting loss carryforwards from terminating the pilots pensions.

So the money the company is giving to investors, indirectly came from terminating the pilots pensions.

I don't care if the company has to give $1B for that, because its still a small amount compared to what they stole and are currently benefitting from.

i don't think it matters. This MEC, that MEC, the Current MEC, etc.

We need to be rooting for Delta.

Easy sections such as hostage, internment, prisoner of war are just feel good sections that are mutually beneficial.

We all (and I mean all) knew the company was gonna kick the can on pilot-centrist core issues.

Real-deal kitchen table issues will at some point get attention at the negotiating table as well.....But, likely Delta will move the ball for us, we just need to pick it up.