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Originally Posted by BMEP100
(Post 3026294)
Has anyone here actually tried to bid for ONE of these options? I can’t be done. You basically bid for all three in priority order. You have no control over what gets awarded. You could end up with any of the other two, and as it says..it cannot be withdrawn.
That is not a choice... It’s more like, “request a reduction and we’ll give you what we want”. I actually changed my bid one time and bid both A and B. And then before it closed out, I just bid A. All three times, I got an email showing correctly what I bid. |
Originally Posted by baseball
(Post 3026127)
I disagree. We likely can't get objective enough criteria in place that is both trust-worthy and verifiable to guarantee the temporary cuts don't become long term guts.
When CAL furloughed the 147, those pilots at least had a place worth coming back to. This is a good time RIGHT NOW, for all vulnerable pilots (bottom half of the list) to dust off their resume's and do some career broadening. We could work for free and it likely won't help the hemorrhaging of the corporate finances. The company simply needs to get a very large access to credit. That would be my advice to the reps. Simply encourage the company to go out and get access to capital. We've given enough in this profession financially. It's time for management to do what management does; get cash, and get it on the best terms they can. As pilots we can continue to operate as efficiently as possible and point out where economic efficiencies can be gained. But, we all have bills to pay, and we need our paychecks too. The union should never go out and get Stockholm syndrome. Management manages. The union enforces labor agreements. I expect to get furloughed. I expect ALPA to do what we pay it to do. I do not want the pilot group to give concessions. Love, yermom |
Originally Posted by Andy
(Post 3026296)
yes. I only bid for 'A'. I left the other two choices blank.
I actually changed my bid one time and bid both A and B. And then before it closed out, I just bid A. All three times, I got an email showing correctly what I bid. It does take only one choice. |
Originally Posted by Andy
(Post 3026247)
Just throwing out a suggestion, not negotiating anything.
PMFJI, but the LPA could be reduced further than what the contract currently calls for with pilots on furlough. 5-B-1-a puts LPA no less than 74 and no greater than 82. Agree to lower those numbers further. In addition, put a cap on total monthly credit hours of say 90 (a number that was removed from my rectum) with all time above that to be paid at a rate of … zero. No pay bank for the credit *****s. All assignments above 80 monthly credit can be refused by the pilot. He11 no to pay cuts. Cut hours worked, not pay. The above allows management to furlough fewer pilots and reduces training costs for them. Feel free to criticize; I'm just tossing out the idea. Also, not getting paid for hours worked or owed is a non starter. It doesn’t take much imagination to understand how that could be abused by the company. I’m not willing to throw out rigs, are you? I hope what we can agree on is that we let the NC do their job and IF contactual changes are required we’ll get a chance to vote. |
Originally Posted by Yermom
(Post 3026300)
+1
I expect to get furloughed. I expect ALPA to do what we pay it to do. I do not want the pilot group to give concessions. Love, yermom I remember how management used our scheduling chairman to negotiate a "furlough mitigation LOA" disguised as "a joint venture flying LOA." Within the furlough mitigation was a blank check to abrogate all of our scope provisions at Continental. The Devil is in the details. The agreement was presented twice in closed session at the CAL MEC. In both sessions the MEC was directly ordered to sign non disclosure agreements and not to discuss with membership, outside counsel, or make copies of the agreement, nor present to membership for ratification. This was an ALPA carrier. All actions were watched by and participated by ALPA legal. It happened once, it can happen again. The LOA failed twice. The scheduling Chairman resigned and went to management where he still works today at the new United. |
Originally Posted by Thor
(Post 3026313)
I understand that your intent is to adjust credit floors/caps to preserve active pilot jobs and reduce furloughs although I’d only be willing to explore that after all the RJs are parked.
Also, not getting paid for hours worked or owed is a non starter. It doesn’t take much imagination to understand how that could be abused by the company. I’m not willing to throw out rigs, are you? I hope what we can agree on is that we let the NC do their job and IF contactual changes are required we’ll get a chance to vote. I never mentioned rigs because those should not be touched, even temporarily. That's a pandora's box that must not be opened. |
Originally Posted by Andy
(Post 3026353)
Not getting paid for hours worked is why one must volunteer for exceeding hours well below that cap. The intent is to discourage credit hoars from banking a bunch of hours. If you've got a better idea, I'm open to suggestions … perhaps all hours flown above the cap go directly to a furlough fund (which will likely be voted on once furlough announcements go out).
I never mentioned rigs because those should not be touched, even temporarily. That's a pandora's box that must not be opened. My suggestion is that we let the NC do their job if and when it’s appropriate and stop running to put our heads on the block in public. |
Originally Posted by Thor
(Post 3026461)
My suggestion is that we let the NC do their job if and when it’s appropriate and stop running to put our heads on the block in public.
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Originally Posted by Andy
(Post 3026530)
Then you shouldn't have solicited a proposal.
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Speaking for me personally, if I’m unfortunate enough to lose my job through a furlough. I want to know that I’ll eventually come back to a contract that’s worth coming back to. I’m not willing to gut our UPA to “save” my job from going away. I’ll entertain shared pain in reduced line values to save jobs, but hourly cuts or rig tampering is a solid no from me. I believe discussions should be very narrow in scope and have a realistic “snap back” timetable associated with it. Just my 2 cents...
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